The Whole Veterinarian
Is it impossible for veterinarians to aim for more balance? The Whole Veterinarian podcast helps to share experiences and start a dialogue about how we can grow as people and professionals. As a female equine solo practitioner, mother and business owner, I've seen the challenges that face us. I want veterinarians to learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier and more grateful for the lives that they've created. Together, let’s learn how to develop a life we love.
The Whole Veterinarian
VET TRUCK CONFIDENTIAL: Building Community in Equine Practice
Feeling isolated as an equine veterinarian? You're not alone. With over 63% of equine practitioners working solo, the struggle to maintain work-life balance while providing excellent care can feel overwhelming. But what if there's a better way?
In this candid conversation, three experienced equine veterinarians share how intentional collaboration transformed their practices from isolated endeavors into sustainable, community-supported businesses. Dr. Kelly Zeytoonian reveals how a sudden transition to solo practice led to an innovative partnership with another local veterinarian - sharing equipment, knowledge, and weekend on-call duties that made independent practice feasible. Dr. Stacey Cordivano describes how meeting another solo practitioner at yoga class evolved into jointly purchasing equipment, sharing staff, and covering emergencies, admitting "if we hadn't had each other, there's no way we'd still be equine vets."
Dr. Misty Gray tackles common fears about collaboration head-on: Will clients switch loyalties? What about different practice styles or pricing structures? Kelly, Misty and Stacey's experiences show that these concerns rarely materialize. Instead, they've discovered that clients appreciate the support system and continuity of care that collaborative relationships provide.
For introverts who find networking intimidating, the episode offers practical strategies for building professional relationships: attending local CE events, making intentional introductions at barns, or simply sending an email to colleagues in your area. The hosts emphasize that established practitioners have a responsibility to welcome newcomers, while newer veterinarians should push past discomfort to initiate connections.
Whether you're a solo practitioner looking for sustainability, a practice owner wanting to improve culture, or an associate seeking community, this episode provides actionable insights for building the collaborative relationships that make equine practice not just survivable, but truly rewarding.
Join us at AAEP Convention for more discussion on practice culture, or explore programs like Decade One for structured community-building opportunities.
Resources:
- 2023 AAEP Fee Survey
- Practice Culture resources from AAEP
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Welcome to the Whole Veterinarian Podcast. My name is Dr Stacey Cordivano and I hope that this is a place where we can all learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier and more grateful for the lives that we've created. In this series, vet Truck Confidential, I am joined by Dr Misty Gray and Dr Kelly Zeytoonian and we have a more casual discussion on topics that are relatable to us as equine veterinarians. We hope you enjoy them and, as always, we'd love your feedback. If you want to hear something new or different, please get in touch and send us advice or suggestions, as always. Thank you for your time and for listening, and we hope you enjoy today's episode.
Stacey Cordivano:This podcast episode is brought to you by CareCredit. For more than 30 years, veterinary practices and horse owners have counted on the CareCredit Health and Animal Care Credit Card as a fast, friendly and flexible payment solution for every moment of care. Carecredit makes it easy for clients to learn, see if they pre-qualify, apply and, if approved, even pay, all on their mobile device With just a tap of a link or a quick scan of a QR code. Clients have a friendly way to pay over time for the services and treatments their horse needs in the moment and for a lifetime.
Stacey Cordivano:Good afternoon, how are you guys? Hey, oh yeah, Misty's, misty's got first day of school jitters.
Misty Gray:I do. I love summertime. Long live summer.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Hashtag, hashtag long live summer Sweet summertime.
Stacey Cordivano:Well, we're back with another episode of Vet Truck Confidential and we are going to talk about a topic near and dear to our hearts Practice culture, develop, developing good practice culture. Kelly and I, specifically, were diving into all the facets of practice culture because we are going to be hosting a table topic at AAEP this year on practice culture. So if you're at AAEP, we hope to see you there. But we were diving into this and we were thinking that the idea of community and collaboration probably isn't talked about enough, so maybe we could dive into that a little bit today. It's certainly been a big part of my practice journey as a veterinarian and so let's kind of dive into that, if that's okay with you, ladies.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Do it, let's do it and I think so important right to share, maybe like our starting stories, because we started off as solo practitioners. And what is it like? 60 plus percentage Three, I think 63, now 63 percentage of equine practitioners in the latest AVMA, aap economic report were solo practitioners. So for those of you out there doing this on your own, we see you, and this is probably maybe a little bit more for you, but I really think for everybody, because I'm now, we all are working at multi-doctor practices and, um, the same principles apply, right yeah, like in theory, sorry miss, but like in theory, you can lose the need to go outside to like collaborate more once you have a bigger practice or are working with more doctors in your own clinic.
Stacey Cordivano:But like I do think it's still just as important. Sorry, miss, what were you going to say?
Misty Gray:Well, just that at our SEPs meetings and decade one group meetings, something that kind of spans the generations in the groups that we listen to is this feeling of being isolated or lonely or kind of like a solo man out in the field. And we hear so much about having a hard time managing these really intense schedules and it's hard to do on your own. And we talk about wanting to think of creative ways to partner with other people to share the workload. So I think it's great to hear the two of you talk about it. I have some questions for you because I have witnessed both of you not just say it's a good idea but actually do it and kind of work through some of the harder parts of it or the not so easy to navigate parts of it.
Stacey Cordivano:So I'm interested to hear what you guys have to say All right, Cal, tell us your story, starting story and sort of how that plays into local community.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Okay, cliff note version is I rather suddenly found myself starting my own veterinary practice, and in the same area. I stayed where I was, but it was a one-woman show for a while and it was invigorating, it was exciting, it was nerve-wracking, it was also very lonely. Right, you're doing all of these things, and certainly my partner was very supportive. But when you're doing all of these things and certainly like my partner was very supportive, but like when you're in it and you're just doing things, it can feel like you're just as Misty said, like a one person show, right. So one of the things that very quickly, you know, came into play was, like I need help, right, I cannot do all of this on my own.
Kelly Zeytoonian:And that help came in the form of another practitioner who I was good friends with and had been, you know, working with and collegial with for quite some time, also happened to be my neighbor quite some time. Also happened to be my neighbor, lent me his supplies and lent me his x-ray machine when I was just trying to get up and running and start seeing cases to get a little bit of cash flow going. And that blossomed into not only sharing equipment but also sharing on call on weekends so that we could each get a little bit of a break. He was also a solo practitioner and then it evolved into, you know, like sometimes we're going to see each other's cases.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Let's maybe talk about cases that are going on or things going on in the community that might impact what we're seeing, and so we ended up having a monthly brunch meeting or breakfast meeting and we would talk about cases. We would talk about, you know, trends in different diseases or issues we were seeing in the area CE that we had been to. We'd each, like, come back and bring things that we learned and it was a really great way to build that community and build the resources of individuals that you could talk cases with without having them under the same roof. So that, to me, was incredibly impactful as I was getting the practice up and running. What about you, stacey? As I was getting the practice up and running, what about you, stacey?
Stacey Cordivano:Well, I am in a very horse vet dense area, like you know. Throw a stone and there's another horse vet and I'm super appreciative of that. I think part of I guess it's part of just inherent to me, but like part of the core values of my practice, even when it was a solo practice, well, probably because it was a solo practice, they were mine. But one of the core values of my practice, even when it was a solo practice, well, probably because it was a solo practice, they were mine. But one of those core values is collaboration. So that's like between me and the patient and the owner, but it's also between any other professionals involved in the case, and so it was sort of natural for me to think that I was going to develop relationships with some of those other vets that are so close by. And I mean, I'm trying to think of like when it was, but like within the first year of starting my own solo practice, which again was not like a sudden thing, but it was not exactly planned, it was sort of forced upon me because it was 09 and there were no jobs. But I met, you know, one of my best friends now, mary. We were actually both at yoga, our yoga instructor, were like you're both equine vets and it turned out she had just left to practice and was going out on her own and I had been on my own for, you know, just under a year I think. And I mean we say all the time, like we've said so many times, that if we hadn't had each other in those years developing the practice, like there's no way, we'd still be equine vets. So for me it was intentional, I mean it was.
Stacey Cordivano:I like having good relationships with people. Like everybody does stuff a little bit differently. Maybe there's a client that fits better with someone else and there's just so many people here and I will say I know that I am lucky. I hear stories all the time about how people live in areas where there may be other vets and they're just like horrible to each other and that's not the case here. There's probably people who are less likely to be super engaged, be super engaged in you know, I don't want to say unfriendly, but they're just less engaged with other veterinarians than some. But there's nobody out here backstabbing anybody on purpose. I think we all realize like there's enough horses in this area to have work for everyone.
Stacey Cordivano:But, that being said, I've really tried to cultivate some specific relationships and we've I mean really tried to cultivate some specific relationships and we've I mean we've covered for each other, we've shared. You know, mary and I bought a shockwave together because it just didn't make sense for the ROI, for either one of us to have one alone at that time. We shared a technician she went back and forth between the two offices an office helper so many things. When you're a small practice, like the economy of scale doesn't work in your favor, and having a full-time this or that, or like having a piece of equipment that you're not using all the time, it just makes sense to be able to share some of that.
Stacey Cordivano:But you do have to have those relationships before anything like that's going to happen. So like you really do have to kind of get to know the people in the area, like as human beings, and like develop some sort of trust with them before some sort of business relationship is going to happen, I think, and so I've just made it kind of a goal and it helps. I think there's quite a few women in my area who have kids and and our kids may not all be the same age, but at least we understand the struggle and all want to help each other out, like we've covered a lot of maternity leaves and, um, you know, things like that just help help each other out if we want to go on vacation or things like that. So I don't know, that was sort of in me, I think, and it's been nothing but beneficial. But I do realize I'm in somewhat of a unique kind of area and situation for that to work out so well as it has.
Misty Gray:You added either of you navigate one of the areas of pushback. I hear about collaborating closely. I guess like, especially when it comes to about collaborating closely. I guess like, especially when it comes to case sharing or not even case sharing, but client sharing. If it's like emergency coverage or you're out of town or whatever, I think a lot of it's fear-based. But so fear that you're going to lose your clients. They're going to prefer the other vet. Fear that the other people in your area practice differently than you do, whether it's standard of care or what someone is comfortable doing or treating on the farm versus referral. Fear that their pricing structure is different and it feels complicated. So what does that matter? How did you guys because I mean especially Stacey with you and Mary early on how did you even figure that out about one another?
Stacey Cordivano:You just talk about it Like yeah, um, I'm probably a little bit of like uh, I don't want to say benign neglect, but like a nativity, like naivety, naivety, okay, um, it turns out that we actually practice very similarly, given the fact that we've never actually gone to work together Well, now we kind of have, but like we've never spent a whole day working together. But I think in talking about cases we realized that we actually do do things very similarly and so that was easy. So, like I a little bit fell into that, the fact that even like a cellulitis, we kind of like she uses paste, not poison, and I use powder, but that's about as different as it gets right, like. So that was a bit lucky. But there are other people who practice differently than I do, who I cover for and who have covered for me, and the bottom line is that I think with good communication, a, you're going to help the person that's covering for you a lot, so you can give them tidbits of like, if anything's at all weird, send it she wants that thing at at the hospital or do whatever you think you can. But you may have to do a lot on the farm for this one because they are not, you know, inclined to take it somewhere. The other thing is just like in your head, knowing that it's not going to be done exactly the same way, that you might do it, but like it's going to be okay and that they're being taken care of in an emergency situation to be okay, and that they're being taken care of in an emergency situation and I'm able to go do what I need to do and that has to be okay. Like that's kind of the bottom line is like it just has to be okay.
Stacey Cordivano:I think that was easier to accept once I had kids and like actually had places to be or like things.
Stacey Cordivano:I couldn't leave humans I couldn't leave.
Stacey Cordivano:In the beginning I think maybe there was a little more worry about ego and things.
Stacey Cordivano:But like I can tell you a very small number of clients who have ever flip-flopped back and forth between the like six veterinarians that I cover for People like who they like and they like their vet and they like to support their vet being away.
Stacey Cordivano:So they're going to have me come out, but they don't want me to come out all the time and if they do, I would have a discussion with that vet and we'd talk about it and I would make the client talk to their vet and then we'd all decide if it was worth switching, because I don't want someone using me if they feel like they're a better fit with Mary and she feels the same way, and but like there are literally a handful or less of people that I can think of in the last 15 years that have ever had that discussion and I think you just have to like get out of the fear mindset and get into the abundance mindset of like if a client leaves or choose to go somewhere else because they're happier with the service they got somewhere else, like that'll open up a spot for me to have a client that's a really great fit for me.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Same. I mean, my experience was exactly the same when I was sharing on call with the other solo practitioner Very different styles and approaches to veterinary medicine. Right, I'd been out three years, he'd been out 30 plus, and it was okay. Though, and I think there, just as you said, there were people that were going to work with him day in and day out because they had those longstanding relationships and that was most important to them. And there were people that came to me because they liked a fresh set of eyes, they liked the way that I approached case workups and they were happy and content to have anybody show up for those emergencies, because time and just attention is what matters in those cases.
Kelly Zeytoonian:But we had an agreement between the doctors that if a client did come to us saying they wanted to switch, then we would put it on the client to have a conversation with the other doctor and be very open about it, because bottom line was we didn't want it to be a situation where it became awkward because we were still covering emergencies for each other.
Kelly Zeytoonian:So, you know, I would just, if somebody came to me and asked like we'd like to move to you, I'd say you know, I'm flattered, but do understand that my priority is we're maintaining a great relationship with this other veterinarian. We work together. This is what allows us to guarantee this coverage, while also, you know, supporting our personal time. And you know, if you still feel strongly about making the switch, please connect with them. They'll release the records and do know that you might still see them on emergency basis. And, like one or two people moved, the other people said, like well, can we just keep you as a second opinion if we want and like, absolutely no problem. So same experience on our end. For, like the multiple years that we shared that coverage, there were very few people that actually made like an official transition.
Stacey Cordivano:And it's like, depending on how long you're gone, like if it's a night or something, like you're getting that case back the next morning, right, Hopefully with a lot of communication or updates about it, right, I do think that that is something that if you're going to help other people out, or if you're going to see a case for someone, you have to also take on the responsibility of like the extra legwork, of extra communication that goes into that and like updating that veterinarian, but like you're going to get it back. So like, how much can like have really passed? Like I guess you could pick different antibiotics, Like I mean, you know, if there's a large colon volvulus, like we're all diagnosing that and it's getting sent to surgery or it's not. So I mean, I don't know, I guess for the pushback of like it's not done the way, like to this standard, I don't know. I I I'm trying, I'm struggling to like think of cases where that would really play out dramatically.
Misty Gray:Well, I mean, it's the emergency stuff, it's probably not the day-to-day stuff, Although I could see like you injecting a joint that another vet would have treated with butane rest first, or you doing an ultra. I think a lot of times it comes back to how people feel about um the money that is spent or billed back to back.
Stacey Cordivano:Oh, so you're thinking you're talking more like not emergency, like day to day.
Misty Gray:No, I'm trying. I actually am thinking most often when I think of these sorts of concerns. I think it is emergency, I think it's a laceration that someone looks at and says like they're confident, it's not in a joint, we'll just put in antibiotics and cold hose, it's going to be fine, versus someone who says, um, I'm more concerned, I'll feel more comfortable if I tap the joint and radiograph and like that bill's more expensive and like we all know that that could go either way. Maybe you have the first person's right and the horse is fine and you could have gotten away with a 300 bill.
Misty Gray:Or maybe you could go the wrong way and like you didn't do enough, you didn't do the extra diagnostics and the horse goes, you know, gets a septic joint, you know. And I think that's why this is so tricky, because we all practice based off of our lived experience, and so someone that's experienced a horse that the joint goes south is going to probably be more aggressive than someone that's treated 100 that didn't. And that's where I see, like you know, I think, the root of it, at the root of it, if everyone is open and honest with one another and they go into it planning to support the other veterinarian and not undermine the other veterinarian. You're fine either way, but that has to be super, super thoughtful, like protect the relationship first, protect yourself and ego second.
Stacey Cordivano:Yeah, when Kelly said that about I'm trying to protect the relationship with this veterinarian because we work together like a thousand percent, that, like my relationship with my colleagues here kind of has to like, has to be more important than even like my best client. Like I would do differently, I would still prioritize protecting the relationship and the reputation of that veterinarian because in the long run those are the relationships that are going to last. Like clients always come and go, like they may get rid of horses, they may move, they may pick a different vet next month, right? And so if I continue to have good working relationships with the veterinarians in the area, then I'm always going to have the support that I need to go do what I need or want to do and I can also call them when I don't know what I'm doing. Or you know there's so many benefits to having phone-a-friends locally.
Kelly Zeytoonian:I also think it is our responsibility as veterinarians to show up and provide the recommendations that we feel are most appropriate given the scenario, and it's the client's job to take that information that's provided to them, ask the questions that they need to ask and approve or not approve the work that is done, or the workup, or the option for referral, you know, et cetera. So I also think, like we oftentimes take that upon ourselves, of like case outcomes become a personal feeling and thing and at the end of the day, you know, yes, we need to provide the education and the estimates and et cetera, but the client also is an equal partner and participant in the process, right? The other thing is, I think, playing off of maintaining relationships with the other practitioners in the like. How important is that? Like, I'm not seeing client X on a daily basis, but you bet that I'm seeing other practitioners.
Kelly Zeytoonian:We're a very concentrated area, right? You bet I'm seeing other equine veterinarians on a near daily basis, and to not have, at minimum, like a collegial relationship with them, like that could just make for very long and unpleasant work days, right? And yeah, clients come and go and we're all so busy and it's stressful. Equine practice is stressful enough Like let's take out a variable that we can control, which is those community relationships with other professionals. That's at least one thing that we can, I think, take some steps to control.
Misty Gray:Yeah, I was thinking too like, really, as I listen, I think I'm always this is my nature as an anxious person I'm always listening and thinking, well, what about this, what about this, what about this? And my what abouts on this topic? There's a couple of them that keep coming up, and one is that, on the one hand, I do think if we're choosing to work with someone, we just have to have respect for them as a human being and as a person that wants to practice. We have to have best expect, like our expectations or what do we say? Generous assumptions let's assume that, even if it's not how we would have done it. Assumptions, let's assume that, even if it's not how we would have done it, that they were bringing their best and what they thought was best.
Misty Gray:And you know, nobody wants to be a bad veterinarian, nobody wants to make bad mistakes, nobody wants a horse to not do well or a case to not do well. So I think that comes up over and over again is that it's just so helpful to have generous assumptions about all people, but about the people that we're choosing to share our time with and work with, and the flip side to that and this is where my in my head I'm like, well, what about the flip side of that? If there is someone in your area that you think is a legitimately bad person or bad practitioner like that's not someone that you work with, then right, like you can have a collegial friendly relationship. Like that's not something that you work with, then right, like, you can have a collegial friendly relationship. But that's when you share your own follow-up. Like if that's legitimately the concern, then that's probably not the right fit for you to share your caseload with.
Stacey Cordivano:But chances are, if you have chosen to take the step, that you're able to make generous assumptions from them you know, I've had a younger associate join and so has mary, and I just also try to like, really emphasize, like just call and ask if you're covering. There's not a lot of times that we're like out of phone range you know what I mean like we may be out to dinner or at a kid's thing, but like we can text and it's like, ah, this one's borderline, like what would you do? And it's just easier to you know, like you do know that client better, right? So it's just easier to say like, oh, if there's any chance it's close to the joint, let's send it in. Or if you think it's close to the joint, like let's do a regional improvision and see what it looks like in 24 hours, like explain that, but like they'll be comfortable with however it goes in 24 hours. So again, again, it's like so cliche, right, but like over communicating. But also making sure they know it's OK to over communicate.
Stacey Cordivano:I hate I had a pediatrician once that I felt like I couldn't ask questions and I ended up leaving. That's like a very off tangent example. As long as younger veterinarians or whoever's covering for me knows that they can call me with questions and like that's encouraged, I'd rather help you with a question on the phone than have to like explain something later or, like you know, sit down with you later. Let's just talk about it. Making sure they know you're open to that, I think, helps things go a long way. Also when especially when you're maybe practicing different or you're not quite sure how someone else practices- and that I think, like lends itself to the.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Just taking the time to know other practitioners as people yeah, makes it that much easier to connect and have those conversations right, like it doesn't even have to be like a formal breakfast meeting and case rounds or things like that, but just a chat and or you know how are you doing and how's you know how's your kid, how's your horse, how's that, whatever that you I saw you were up to last time we talked.
Kelly Zeytoonian:That I saw you were up to last time we talked, and that alone, I think, just makes it that much more comfortable to get on the phone and say, hey, I'm at this barn. One of your clients came up to me and is trying to add on an appointment today. Are you in the area? Could you come and take care of them yourself? Would it be helpful for me to do this for you? I'm actually super busy and I'm going to tell them that they just need to call you. Be aware that this is this is happening. They're coming Just having their numbers in the phone, right, and like the comfort level with a message I think is huge.
Misty Gray:Y'all have any advice for people who, like myself, might be shy or more introverted and like the idea of, like I've heard stacy talk about yeah, I'm gonna go grab coffee with this person that I met on instagram, this vet not, that's a rando, I would never in my life, never. I just I wouldn't and then she'll come back and be like yeah, it was such a great conversation, we just caught up, you know, like he's a bad or she's a bad and we, you know, I just so. Like to me, kelly, when you're talking about brunch rounds or brunch meeting or coffee, that feels painful to me Once I know somebody, fine, but like, do you guys have any advice?
Kelly Zeytoonian:for someone that's not as easily comfortable being like outgoing or feeling like they can carry the conversation. Do hard things.
Stacey Cordivano:Do hard things, get out of your comfort zone. I'm not an extrovert by any stretch of the imagination. I also agree like a big brunch meeting actually to me sounds more intimidating than a one-on-one coffee with someone I don't know, because, like I mean, coffee can take 20 minutes, right, I don't know.
Kelly Zeytoonian:If you don't want to meet, send an email like here's who I am here. Here's what I do in the area. You would say like I'm not super social, but I am a super great vet and I want to be sure that we have a great working relationship. This is who I am. Here's my email. Here's my cell phone.
Misty Gray:I like that.
Stacey Cordivano:That doesn't feel scary to me and I think like at your age, misty, I think of myself now as like it's a little bit my job. You know, like if I can help somebody feel more comfortable in the area, it's like a little bit my responsibility. I've been here long enough. I know enough people If I can introduce them to one or two other vets that they haven't met yet.
Misty Gray:Well, and so maybe, maybe this is a message into the void, but if you are a more established practitioner in the area and you know that there is a newer young veterinarian in the area, it could be a good act of service to.
Stacey Cordivano:Yeah, and that may not be who's listening to this. So if you are younger, reach out. I don't think any of us, like Misty, would never say no to you. She just might not do it herself.
Misty Gray:And I don't. I don't necessarily feel as intimidated by that idea now, but as we're, I'm trying to think for the broad audience.
Stacey Cordivano:Me 10 years ago wouldn't I would not have felt comfortable well, no, I didn't reach out to older vets in the area either. It took me a long time to get to know some of the older vets and that was, you know, crossing paths on a case or a new barn or a horse show, or you know, you know one place to start, too, is just forcing yourself.
Misty Gray:If you were a shyer person, force yourself to go say hi. If you're at the barn with them, like if the introduction is possible, make yourself go do it. Yeah, because there's been more than once as a younger vet that I would be like, oh, there's a vet truck over there, like run away.
Stacey Cordivano:like run away, rather than force the introduction. Maybe not the most outwardly social people I mean, obviously there's caveats to all that, right but like, if you are at a barn and you're busy and you have a full slate, like you may not think to go introduce yourself. So if you are younger and have a little more time in your schedule and just want to be the one to pop over and say hi, like everyone should be doing, it cross directionally. But you know, we do kind of get stuck in our ways and we just like put our head down and go to work sometimes. So I will say, the other way I actually met quite a few people was, you know, local drug rep, dinners and stuff and like that's harder once you have kids. I I stopped going to like kind of all dinners until like maybe the last year, now that they're like a little more settled. But I did actually meet some people that I hadn't crossed paths with until I went to a dinner meeting.
Misty Gray:Yeah, I did too, and get yourself sit at a table even if like not people yeah. Yeah.
Stacey Cordivano:Ew.
Misty Gray:Yeah.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Yeah, it is speed dating.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Yeah, it is and it's.
Kelly Zeytoonian:It's a lot of work, but I mean now that it's not just me trying to meet people.
Kelly Zeytoonian:It's like to feel like I have a community because I have this great team and we are our own Starwood community. But I still think if there's somebody that's not a solo practitioner, listening and has multi-doctors in the practice, it is way easier, I think, and more impactful for a new veterinarian to join a team that has a good working relationship with other practitioners in the area and feels good about their ability to say hello and call and ask for, you know, to borrow medication because some special thing came up and it's needed. Or, you know, run blood work at the neighboring clinic because they have a machine that you don't have, et cetera, et cetera. Right, doing it, not just for ourselves but for the team members that we have or potentially are going to bring on, is huge. So I'm listening to all of this and I'm realizing that I need to plan some sort of gathering with people in our area because post COVID and then baby like it has definitely fallen off in how social we've been.
Stacey Cordivano:Well, and can you imagine, like I would imagine, for a smaller practice or a solo practitioner to come into a group of like Starwood people would be intimidating, Not because you guys are mean, but just like it's a group of. It's a large group, People that have been working together for a long time, and that might be. Yeah, If you guys were all sitting at a table I probably wouldn't sit with you. I just like inherently in any like right, Like I don't.
Stacey Cordivano:I if you go to those meetings and it's a full table of like one practice it's hard to insert yourself into. And so you end up seeing like four solo practitioners sitting at a table together. So when you have your event you're going to have to make them split up and sit at separate tables, okay, um, I also wanted to add on to the associates liking that when rachel joined she was like shocked at how well I got along with all the people in the area.
Stacey Cordivano:That was not her previous experiences and I think it feels good to her to have an extra phone, a friend or five. If she can't reach me or if I'm out of town or if it's something related to ultrasound, she always calls Mary because that's her shtick, you know. So like it is nice and associates appreciate that if you are looking to hire one and and keep one on, I think they like it. It shows that you're willing to think outside the box of just like. This is our practice and we're the best.
Misty Gray:Going back to a thought I had earlier, how do you guys handle the money side of things like different pricing structures or who gets paid what, or that kind?
Stacey Cordivano:of thing about the same bill total. I will say like in passing I think we have talked about you know, have you upped your Brady graph charge recently and things like that? So there's probably some discussion.
Kelly Zeytoonian:just to make sure everyone's in the ballpark, and then you have to be careful.
Stacey Cordivano:We should say that for careful about not like. But you can kind of talk about like how much a colic would cost or a pre-purchase would end up costing, and also with the recent fee survey, it's like easy to use that to make sure you're in the ballpark because they did it. They did do it by state or region.
Kelly Zeytoonian:In the resources section the latest.
Stacey Cordivano:Yeah, yeah, we can put that in the notes. Yeah, link to the fee survey.
Misty Gray:But what you're saying is, if you're out of town and one of the other practices is covering emergency and they go see one of your patients, they bill it as if it's their patient that gets entered into their system.
Stacey Cordivano:Yeah, they're responsible for collection of fees, yeah, and most of us around here are doing payment at time of service. So if I don't do that, like there's one I didn't do and like that's on me to then follow up because, like they could have expected that gotcha kelly same for you same for us.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Yeah, we bill, or whoever else sees the worst bills. We get them in the system. They have to fill out all of our paperwork in order for us to go and see them, and we make sure that they list their regular vet as an agent so that we have permission to then immediately send records over. That's a good idea. I don't do that.
Misty Gray:That's a good idea. And then let's say you see a case tonight you go and see a colic for someone. You send that information over the next morning. Your practice is not following up on that case.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Correct the plan section says please follow up with Dr X for or reasons to call the emergency line to get a reevaluation, or blah, blah, blah.
Stacey Cordivano:Yeah, yeah. Unless I was doing multiple days, then, right.
Misty Gray:Yeah, right, cool, we should talk a little more about, I think specifically I know, kelly, you kind of glossed over it, but specifically that like what happens if you're at a barn for something else and a different client says hey, while you're here because like they want to save on a farm call. Or like if you're out doing a big vaccine clinic and someone else because like that's not really, that's not a situation where you're working with another practice, it's just a form of collegial respect, I guess, and how we choose to handle those things yeah, for me I'm pretty firm, like I think it goes back to again like really valuing those relationships with my colleagues.
Stacey Cordivano:So I'm a pretty firm. I'm not going to do work for anybody else unless it's some dire emergency. And hopefully I've actually talked to that practice and they want me to help them, for continuity of care, for me to like step in and do this one tiny little thing, whether it's like a tetanus shot or a set of hock injections, because I don't know what's been done with your horse in the past, I don't know what your goals are. For me and my, in our practice like relationship and collaboration, even with the owner, is really key and so like we are very involved in like the whole plan for the horse for the year. We're not just kind of one-off. So that's not the client I would want anyway. But I'm a pretty hard like oh well, I'm sure your vet will be able to get out here at some point and do that for you, but call them.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Yeah, or, like you know, given that we don't have an established relationship with you, this appointment is actually going to be more involved than a simple tetanus shot. You know, we're going to need to do a baseline exam, get the history, et cetera, and that's going to cost you one. It's going to cost you more two. We don't actually have the time built into our day to accommodate a full exam added on.
Misty Gray:I used to have that come up in a lot of training barns. There were a bunch of training barns that I wanted to work at and the trainer would schedule vaccines and Coggins usually, and sometimes it would be like a new, this is a new one, this is a new one, and I'm not sure it did a. I'm not sure there was something I could have done differently there, but I definitely didn't put thought into it, I just kind of like showed up like a that is sort of a different situation.
Stacey Cordivano:I have had some clients where they're like do you want to keep doing vaccines? And like the barn is so regulated and like I don't want to miss, like I don't know that the owners like on it enough to like remember themselves that I have a couple of times said, hey, why don't you get onto that vaccine and deworming schedule? If you want to stay with us for sports medicine, like just let them know that that is going to be okay. But again you're like talking about it a lot and like ahead of time, yeah. So there are cases where I I do think that that makes sense and so like if I have a list of horses, come in that I'm like oh well, we've never seen these two Like A they have to fill out all the paperwork, but like that would be a conversation with them. Are you looking to switch to us for like the entirety of your care, or let's have a discussion about what the plan is, agree?
Kelly Zeytoonian:That's totally fair.
Misty Gray:And you guys said that in an emergency situation like, let's say, you are at a barn all day, like you know, I know, kelly, you do Like I'm going to be at this barn today If there's a horse on the premises that's having an emergency, and you're there, but it's not your client. You said you would ideally reach out to their veterinarian before you consider touching or looking for it.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Yeah, I mean, if it's not like a broken leg, you know, like just something needs to happen instantly, then I have them call, or I call whoever the veterinarian is as a courtesy right, because, like I have definitely had that happen where I like come to find out that there was a horse colicking at the barn and then now it's been sent to the referral hospital and I had no idea and I'm like I was just down the road I could have like I could have been there, I could have followed through, I could have been there for my client, been there for my patient.
Misty Gray:Like that doesn't feel great to me because it feels like it has happened, you know, kind of like I guess my my flip side to that, though, is that I can see an argument made like we just want what's best for the horse in the moment, like I'm a patient, so like sure, if you're a couple minutes down the road, that's not putting the horse at this advantage.
Stacey Cordivano:But yeah, you would know yeah, I think that's also a discussion with the owner after as well. I'm actually just thinking of one. It's a really great client who in theory knows better. But that basically happened with a laceration. I was actually mostly upset because I didn't want to tax the other veterinarian. Like I knew the other veterinarian didn't actually have time to do it and just said yes, and I was like hey, like I wasn't far away, you didn't even let me know.
Stacey Cordivano:I worry more Again. I'm like worrying more for that veterinarian's day because I know what she has later in the day, like she has kids that she has to get home to and you're my responsibility, right, like so, like your emergencies are my responsibility. She's not getting money from any other source from you, just because she was like three aisles down. So that was a client education thing and she was like oh, I never actually really thought about that way and we kind of have just moved on from that. But yeah, I feel like if you're not willing to do some extra communication and let everybody know, like in that case, that you referred it, you shouldn't be stopping to help if you're not also able to then communicate with the referral with the primary veterinarian. Agree.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Yeah, we didn't find out until the client called and told us.
Stacey Cordivano:So that just feels like, yeah, that feels bad, yeah, but again, maybe they didn't know you and maybe they didn't know that you don't they like yeah it's so interesting because I, I do.
Misty Gray:I think a lot of people feel the exact same way you guys do and, and my, my knee jerk in that moment, I was like, oh, thank god, like the horse got taken care of, I didn't have to rearrange things to do. You know, like it's it is that it is.
Stacey Cordivano:That might be what you say Like, oh, you're there, you're willing to do it, like awesome, I trust you to tube a colic and I don't have to rearrange my day, but I do want to know about it.
Misty Gray:Yeah.
Stacey Cordivano:And maybe that's a size thing. I don't know, kelly, I, you know, like in a huge practice versus like my size practice, I I don't know. I just I like to kind of know, I have like to have a feel of what's going on.
Kelly Zeytoonian:There's just this feeling of like well, now I feel like I somehow dropped the ball for this client, even though I didn't even know about it. So that's like a guilt thing.
Misty Gray:Yeah, that's not, that's a story you're telling yourself. Yeah maybe you weren't contacted and you that's the other person was standing there. That's not you dropping anything and if anything, that's like a friend being a hero by stepping in.
Stacey Cordivano:I still think everybody knowing everything is the best, even a quick text.
Kelly Zeytoonian:Agree 100%. I can be on board with that All right. So communication is key. Be generous in your assumptions of people's intentions and what they were doing and what their expectations are, etc. Take some time in your own level of comfort to request a meeting. Try to get together with people, build some sort of relationship so that it becomes a bit easier in these higher stress timeframes. What other key takeaways are there?
Stacey Cordivano:If you're up for it, have your favorite company rep schedule a meeting so that you guys can get together and eat free food. Yeah. I like that.
Misty Gray:Make yourself say hi.
Stacey Cordivano:Don't hide, do hard things Do hard things for the greater good.
Stacey Cordivano:Cool, all right. Well, we'd love to hear ideas of what you do in your community together. I know that there's probably some creative things, even if it's cocktails or brunch or whatever the case may be, so let us know what those are. We'd love to hear some fresh ideas so we can share. Talk to you, ladies, soon. Bye, bye, thanks so much for listening today. I just wanted to throw in a little conclusion.
Stacey Cordivano:Literally five minutes after we recorded this episode, my friend and colleague called me and I was mentioning how I had just talked about her a whole bunch, and her ears must be ringing and she brought up something interesting that we didn't talk about in the episode, and she said we were so lucky to have found each other because 15 years ago, when we started collaborating, this was not a thing and we were there to help each other create the practices that we wanted for ourselves. And it's been so lovely to see the collaboration continue to grow, even just in our area, to see how many people are able to make solo practice or small practice work as parents and as people who ride or have other parts to their lives, and so it's not lost on me that this intentional creation of a practice like this is lucky, but it's also been beneficial for many people and again, thank you to everyone who's ever helped cover for me or collaborated in some way. It's great to be in a community of people that is able to do that. If you are not in a community that is able to do that. I do also just want to mention that Decade One is a place for you to find community of some sorts. It's not necessarily going to be people that are close enough to cover your on-call per se, but it is a place where community formation is the heart of the program. Yes, we learn about business aspects and P&Ls and, yes, we learn about you know how to be a better leader and communicate in difficult situations. But the true heart of Decade One is the community that's formed within each cohort. So we will be enrolling a new cohort starting in January of 2026.
Stacey Cordivano:So please check out the website decadeonevet. com for more information about that and, as always, thank you to all of our partners who help make this podcast and the Decade One program and Starting Gate program and Sustainability in Equine Practice seminar series possible. And starting gate program and sustainability and equine practice seminar series possible. That is Care Credit, Merck animal Health, hilltop Bio and AAEP's Foundation for the Horse. Thank you so much to them and please let us know if you have ideas or thoughts or push back on anything that we've shared, and I hope you have a great week, see ya.
