VET TRUCK CONFIDENTIAL: Recognition, Feedback, and Celebrating the Team

Introducing the VET TRUCK CONFIDENTIAL series! Join Doctors Kelly Zeytoonian, Misty Gold & Stacey Cordivano as we have casual conversations about all things vetmed and life.

Ever wondered how to make your veterinary team feel truly appreciated and engaged? Today we tackle the art of recognizing employee milestones and making every team member feel valued. We'll also discuss the importance of tailoring feedback and recognition to individual preferences.

Here's what AI wrote!
But that's not all—this episode offers a deep dive into effective feedback practices and team-building strategies. We emphasize the significance of regular check-ins over annual reviews and introduce tools like "stay interviews" and structured self-reviews to maintain open lines of communication.  Whether you're a practice owner or team leader, tune in for actionable insights to enhance team cohesion and ensure everyone feels heard and appreciated.

RESOURCES!
Reward and Recognition Survey
Feedback Survey
Stay Interview Guidelines
Rippling HR tool

About the series!
Join us on Vet Truck Confidential, a candid and engaging podcast series where we explore the real-life experiences, challenges, and triumphs of equine veterinarians on the road. Each episode dives into the heart of veterinary practice with insightful conversations and stories from the field. Whether you're a seasoned vet or just starting out, get ready for an inside look at the world of equine practice like never before.

Chapters

• 0:08 Employee Recognition and Engagement Strategies
• 15:04 Effective Employee Feedback Practices
• 27:42 Building Effective Communication in Small Teams

Transcript

Stacey Cordivano: 0:08

Hey there, I'm so glad you've joined us. Welcome to the Whole Veterinarian Podcast. Hey there, it's been a hot minute since I've recorded or published, I should say, an episode. But you know how life gets and I appreciate the grace that you give me to kind of put these out as I'm able to. The format of the Whole Veterinarian going forward may change a little bit.

Stacey Cordivano: 0:33

I'm experimenting and figuring out what works in life. I've also been listening to some more relaxed podcasts, some comedy podcasts and some other formats, and they're very conversational and, you know, unscripted and unedited and I'm really digging them lately. So we decided to try something here that we've done a little bit in the past but it may become more of a regular thing. So my friends Dr Kelly Zetunian and Dr Misty Gold will be joining me here today and in upcoming episodes for just some casual chats about specific industry topics and life topics, because you know hard to separate them completely. I hope you enjoy. If you have any ideas on things you want us to talk about, let me know and check out the show notes for any resources and links that we share about the things that we talk about in here today. Hope you have a great week.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 1:33

Hey everybody, How's it going?

Misty Gold: 1:39

Hello.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 1:41

I figured, or we figured, we would get together and I wanted to talk to everybody this week, because it is the start of summer and, you know, based on times, that individuals graduate, this is now when we have new hires joining and also have current employees hitting their kind of anniversary marks, or, if we're associates, we are hitting our anniversary marks, and so I thought it was a great time for us to talk about employee reviews and some general employee engagement, because this is the time that I think many of us are finding we're either being asked to have those reviews or we're scheduling them, or so, to start it off, I wanted to find out from you all what the best thing that someone has done for you or you've done for an employee to celebrate their anniversary. I need some ideas. I've got a bunch coming up for my team.

Misty Gold: 2:38

Let's see. I am sad to say that my anniversary was never recognized or and I never witnessed any other employee at our practice, our group practice recognized for their anniversary. But when I was thinking about this question it made me feel all warm and fuzzy about the idea that an anniversary is something to be recognized and celebrated. So I can't tell you what has been done, but I can tell you I wish it would have been done and I will do that, I think, in the future, like I, what a great way to recognize the hard work and the accomplishment. I think of sticking it out another year, right, and like thriving and the difference that you make.

Misty Gold: 3:39

So I will say we didn't. We didn't recognize me and my little truck tech did not recognize anniversaries, but we did ice cream Fridays in the summer. We did breeding season. Work in the summer was intense and we did cut out a small moment of time on Fridays for ice cream and we would stop, we'd get excited about it, we'd pick it up, we would sit still while we ate it and be like, yeah, here we like, look what we're doing. So that's not an anniversary celebration, but that makes me think of that, like I, it was something we all look forward to. We chanted we're like ice cream friday. It's here, you know.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 4:22

So I'm, I'm, I love the idea what would the recognition look like to you, or what would you want it to look like?

Misty Gold: 4:36

you know what I? I think what the people, the managers in our practice failed to recognize was how far just verbal recognition would go, like I remember feeling like just it's free, it's easy, it's quick. So I think even as simple as like I don't like to be the center of attention necessarily, so like the birthday party thing upstairs kind of would make me uncomfortable. But I think like we all used different Slack apps or you know, communication apps, I think just like a blast to the group or even an email to the group that said Misty's 13 year anniversary, 13 years at the practice, like congratulations, and remember when you were an intern or you know, like there's some sort of like verbal recognition and then that would allow me to have the like everybody knows. So then when you walk by the individual, like hey, I saw that, like that would be easier for me to take than like to do.

Stacey Cordivano: 5:44

You know what I mean, which makes me think about the survey that was created by the practice culture subcommittee on on people's individual preferences, on how they want to receive feedback and praise and recognition, because that is so individual right, and I think we've talked about this before, but you know, just Kelly, asking that question like, what does recognition, what type of recognition or what does recognition look like to you? Like, that's the question that needs to be asked then in the practice to everyone, and we can put a link to that survey because it's so easy.

Stacey Cordivano: 6:22

You just print it out, you don't have to customize anything, it's super easy to hand out to your team and then know like, and it's based on the love languages, right, like so a gift of ice coffee for me would honestly even be better than a shout out to the team Like hey, like we're thinking of you, here's like a quick coffee, like I would love that, yeah, and other people would love to have, you know, cupcakes in the break room. I'm sure that that would feel better to them. It would feel more like a party, like I don't need a party, I don't even like need words necessarily but like an act of service or a small gift is good for me.

Misty Gold: 7:02

So it made me think too. You know, like I would have loved, like even like I don't know like popsicles for everybody in the freezer, just with the like hey, to celebrate Dr Gray's 10 year anniversary, stop by to get a popsicle. That wouldn't require me to like be there for it, necessarily.

Misty Gold: 7:20

But, but it's like a little bit of recognition and awareness and, whereas I worked with my sister-in-law, who has a totally different personality than me and like she would love nothing more than like a crown and a sash to be able to wear and, like you know, like it's a, it's a different version of yeah, and so then I think potentially I'm getting off the topic of the question, but the potentially, the pushback on this is like well, I have a big team.

Stacey Cordivano: 7:47

How do I manage this for everybody? Right, like so for me and Rachel and one technician that's very doable to ask how they like to be rewarded, which actually reminds me that I didn't. I missed Rachel's anniversary this year at the beginning of the month, but um.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 8:05

Now you can recognize her via a podcast.

Stacey Cordivano: 8:11

Congratulations on moving into year three, rachel and um. Welcome to the ownership team. Um, how, how do people have the time to do this when, even for a practice your size Kelly, how do you manage it? And then also an even bigger team, you know like 20 doctors or something like that, how, how do we manage? Make the time for that.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 8:35

It's tough, I can say I haven't asked members of my team how they want to be rewarded or recognized. We have not gone through that paperwork because we are a team, I think, of 16 or 17 right now, and that feels a little bit daunting for me. So what I've done is and I have a great HR system so Rippling actually tells me people's anniversaries, which makes it very helpful when I log in and it says it's this week and you're celebrating this birthday or this anniversary. But I do a Slack message, you know, which is public in that all of the teams have the potential to see it, but it's not like people singing to you at the restaurant where you want to crawl under the table, because that's how I feel when that used to happen to me.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 9:24

But we do that and then I do a Starbucks gift card or, if it's a tech that's working with me, we do an anniversary lunch during the workday. It's simple and it covers a little bit of, like, the public recognition if that's what people like or acts of service you know, the goodies or whatever gifts with gift cards or lunch. And can I do more?

Kelly Zeytoonian: 9:50

Yeah, I'm thinking like some people would actually love to wear a tiara and a sash for their workday and I think clients would probably some of them would love to see that, and this is me like putting my business hat on and like going sideways, but it's also like a feather in the cap of the practice to show that there's people that have been there for long periods of time, so like I have, of course, just spun it like how can I market? This is a great.

Stacey Cordivano: 10:13

Well, I was actually thinking why? Why aren't we posting these things on social media Right, like, yes, it's another touch point with followers and shows that people are, you know, celebrated at the practice and have stuck around, yeah, yeah?

Misty Gold: 10:31

And I would throw out there that it's better to be recognized in an imperfect way than to not be recognized at all. I wouldn't allow if you're a practice owner or a manager, I would not allow yourself to get so concerned and overwhelmed with trying to do it right that you're not doing it at all. I think everybody recognizes that it would feel good to be recognized.

Stacey Cordivano: 10:57

With the one caveat is like if you're going to do it for someone, do it for everybody. Maybe in that same way, like yeah, it doesn't get customized, but don't start it and then fall off the wagon.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 11:10

I have thought of something. So. So, missy, sorry to interrupt, but you know you said you don't have an employee right now and your experience has been different and all that Like here's a follow-up question is I have this, like it's lonely at the top and like I'm coming up on anniversary for Starwood Equine and it will be 11 years this summer and it has been, you know, a long and amazing and great 11 years. But I would like a little bit of like recognition of that. And you know there's nobody that's doing that for the practice per se. So I guess it's like a little bit of a woe is me for the practice per se. So I guess it's like a little bit of a woe is me, but like how how can I turn that around to celebrate the accomplishment without it being like look what I built and everybody celebrate me? So it's kind of like you kind of want that sometimes as hard as we work to create these practices.

Stacey Cordivano: 12:10

Well, what if you just did like a celebration party for the team, as far as, like, we're celebrating that Starwood's been open for 11 years Not that I busted my butt for this many years to build it but like, here we are and like you work very hard to make a culture where everyone feels like Starwood is theirs. Right, everyone has a piece of it. It's not one doctor, it's all the doctors together and all the staff. So just celebrating the entire entity of it, I think would make sense with like a dinner or or some sort of celebration.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 12:49

Yeah, we're going to do polo lessons. To do polo lessons, oh that's awesome. Yeah, you, you are gonna do that, we are. Yeah, we couldn't get it organized for the spring, before we head out of town and everybody's traveling. So we are booked, I think in September, with clients of ours who are coaches for the college polo team.

Stacey Cordivano: 13:16

That's so creative.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 13:18

That's fun.

Stacey Cordivano: 13:19

Yeah, that's fun.

Misty Gold: 13:30

I was thinking, even like the group trail ride, that I, the celebrations, were asking people to spend their personal time like another bit of time at work, and that what people probably really wanted was just time off. How do you guys, what do you think about that?

Stacey Cordivano: 13:58

I think it would be ideal if it was done during the workday, if it was like kind of a mandatory thing. Otherwise, I would say, if you're building a culture where people like to be together, then what I have heard from people is that they are shocked at how well the turnout ends up being, especially if they can bring family and spouses.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 14:21

I was going to say the same thing. If you can open it up so that there's an opportunity to bring in family members, partners, friends, even um, to sort of share in, like the this is, this is where I am when I'm not with you, or this is the people that I'm with, that can be fun and it's nice to meet family members and partners and friends and kind of have that connection, because you tend to hear about people in the car and you hear about trips and what they're up to. So to put names and faces together does, I think, really like help to solidify the relationship with the employees and the practice all at the same time. Okay, so let's jump on, because that was like the fun light and area.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 15:08

What are the things that we could do? But, you know, getting down really to those employee reviews and thinking about the practicality of it and why we need to do it.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 15:19

it's really important and we do know, that employees who are given feedback feel that they are invested in and they are likelier to stick around and, you know, continue to grow with the team, with the team. So how do you all manage to give feedback to your employees, or how have you been given feedback as an employee in meaningful and respectful and also candid manner? Right, we have to take the kid gloves off and give people the constructive feedback that they need, while also, you know, being mindful of's feelings. So how have you all managed that? Or what are some tips and good practices that you've seen people do?

Stacey Cordivano: 16:06

I think for sure meeting way more than once a year is the way to get that done, I think, especially if the anniversary is this time of year.

Stacey Cordivano: 16:16

Generally speaking, most people are super busy right now, so shifting that to a less busy time. But honestly I think that if you are only meeting once a year there is not enough communication back and forth in a practiced manner to get comfortable and get everything you need to get out in as far as criticisms and accolades go. So for me, with my associate starting, we really tried hard to meet weekly and now, granted, that's one person, so that's much easier to do than in a larger practice. But I just think some sort of regular check-in it's almost just like the habit of it encourages the conversation and then makes A nothing becomes so big that it's this huge ordeal. And B, when you practice going back and forth like that, it just becomes easier to give constructive feedback. So whatever timeframe can reasonably be done for someone it like, highly, highly recommend. And the research shows the same thing that you are going to have better conversations, easier conversations, even when they're difficult, if you're meeting more frequently.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 17:32

And for people that are like but what am I going to talk about in those meetings?

Kelly Zeytoonian: 17:36

I don't have any particular constructive feedback Conduct a stay interview. So this concept of you know there's exit interviews, somebody's leaving and you're finding out why they're leaving and what you could have done better. Instead, be proactive and perform these stay interviews to figure out you know what's working for the employee, what are areas where they'd like to grow, how can you support them, and so it kind of. It doesn't kind of it gives you a script for that conversation just to help get the ball rolling and we also have resources for that through the AAP's Practice Culture Subcommittee, and so we'll get those posted to share with everybody. They're ready to go. And even if you picked just a couple questions for every one of your meetings subcommittee, and so we'll get those posted to share with everybody, they're ready to go. And even if you picked just a couple of questions for every one of your meetings, or driving down the road in the car with your technician or assistant, bring some of those conversations up. As Stacey says, it does just get easier and easier.

Misty Gold: 18:31

So I was on the leadership team for a bigger practice and we worked so hard to try to come up with, like a very thoughtful self-review for someone to fill out before their review and then also for, like, the manager that was doing a review to fill out their side. And we've really tried to educate on, like what the grading scale meant. You know. Like a three is what was to be expected, that was not a failing grade. Like three is performing at your expected. You don't have to give everybody a five.

Misty Gold: 19:12

And I'm going to be honest, that survey worked excellent for me because I felt like I was in a situation where I had the trust and respect to be open and that people were open to my feedback.

Misty Gold: 19:26

It went over like a lead balloon or a fart in church for like 80% of the staff and, um, I'm not sure that the higher up managers ever even received the feedback about how I don't doubt people were by the questions on the survey.

Misty Gold: 19:47

Because I was a trusted, like in between level member of employment. I had the trust of a lot of people who used me as a sounding board and so I knew that me in that whole situation is that even with the right frame of mind and the right intention of trying to make a survey if you don't have all of the people that are going to be expected to participate in the survey, have some sort of buy-in to the survey or, even better, psychological safety within the environment and practice and that back and forth, like Stacey's saying, you're not going to get any information out of it. It was a real eye-opener for me because I was on the team of people that wrote the questions Like I knew the intent behind it and it would have worked wonderful for me to fill out. I felt comfortable being really honest, but most people did not.

Stacey Cordivano: 20:49

Yeah, and I think anything you start is probably going to be met with some sort of resistance, right? The first couple of Friday meetings I had with my associate, I think she was a little nervous, like what am I going to get yelled at for doing wrong this week Just because that's the background? Maybe she came from. What am I going to get yelled at for doing wrong this week Just because that's the background maybe she came from. So again, that just reinforces the idea that more frequent meetings will allow more comfortable conversations. You may not get a lot the first couple of times you sit down with someone, but as you continue to do that, that's where that feeling of psychological safety starts to grow, especially if you're supporting them or doing things in other ways to make them feel like they can voice their opinion. It will. You'll gain more and more. You know your first day interview you may not hear a lot, but hopefully, as the year goes on, or as a couple of years goes on, you'll hear more and more from people. I would think.

Misty Gold: 21:44

I also think it was tricky to get good feedback when the interview is tied to someone's discussion about their salary or raise or payment. So I you know, I know that the reason that we did that and the reason that I think most people avoid frequent meetings is because we're all so darn busy and then it's like, yeah, more meetings, and like we're not paid to host meetings, we're paid to be on the road, and it's like we think we're only our value is only in the role of doctor, solving doctor problems. But this is an important part of our role as a doctor and as a leader.

Stacey Cordivano: 22:29

Yeah, I've heard multiple times at different places that performance or like raise meetings should be completely separate from evaluation meetings, and I think that makes a lot of sense.

Misty Gold: 22:46

The other thing that I think was a real roadblock that we should talk about is that. So to combat this issue with timing and too many meetings, especially when you're in a practice where there's one boss who makes all the decisions, who makes all the decisions? So then the meetings were Anne is still practicing veterinary and a high level of veterinary practice. It was tried to push those meetings into a kind of newly hired HR person, and the HR person did not garner the same respect from the staff because that person was not really the decision maker, and so it made the meetings feel like they didn't matter to the employees.

Misty Gold: 23:35

So then and I don't know, maybe Kelly, you can, as a big group practice owner, you can share your thoughts on that, because I'm not sure what the answer is that it would be hard for the boss to be the person run. It is a lot of meetings when you have over 50 something employees. It would be even once a year while you're busy practicing medicine. It would be a ton of meetings. Your whole job could be that, but I'm not sure how you get around it. Like having someone else do that for you doesn't give the people what they need, I guess was my view.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 24:13

Your experience.

Misty Gold: 24:14

Yeah.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 24:15

Yeah, I mean I don't. It takes a lot of time. Do multiple reviews per year? Yeah, I mean I have. Like people have weekly check-ins where they can fill out a survey. If they need anything, it comes, you know, to me. I can check in and hear from them in sort of a private way.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 24:42

One of the well, I don't know, this is sort of a roundabout. It's tough. I'm like like looking at my schedule right now, trying to figure out when I'm going to meet with the doctors on the team who are having their anniversaries right now, because exactly what you said like people don't want to stop in the middle of their meet for sushi and have a really good lunch. It's like worth it to take that break. But you know you want to be mindful of like not jamming up people's day while at the same time having a chance to meet.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 25:16

But I think what I've been finding is like the more that these meetings have become consistent. Even like our quote-unquote big annual review meeting doesn't take that much time. There's no sizes, there's nothing really major that comes up, it's really just. You know, how are we doing on working on goals and what are some things that we want to try for this coming year. So it really becomes more of like a social visit type thing because of the consistency of meeting. But even I mean 50 people, you're looking at 50 days of meeting to do that right.

Misty Gold: 25:56

If you do it once a year.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 25:58

Do it once a year you know, or doing multiple coffee dates within a single day, or yeah, I don't have an answer for that.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 26:07

That does feel to me like it needs to become, you know, a member of the team whose sole job or primary, you know, hr type job is to really meet and connect.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 26:19

But I was going to say earlier, you know you can't just have these meetings and you can't just ask people these questions and get their feedback and do nothing about it.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 26:28

And so where I think that the I don't know respect isn't the right word, but the trust in the process, even with, you know, not the boss or the owner will come over time by seeing that you know you met with the boss or you met with the head of HR and you gave this feedback and you actually saw something come of it. You described that you wanted this experience or you had this idea, and they took it to the next level and brought it to the team and tried to enact the change, or something like that. So I think it can be done appropriately by somebody other than the boss, can be done appropriately by somebody other than the boss. It just needs to, you need to see that there's actually accountability and action that comes from that individual, and they need to be. They need to be given the ability to really act on the conversations that they're having. It can't just be that they're there as the face of you know, a quote unquote leader, who then doesn't do anything about it.

Stacey Cordivano: 27:25

So that was what I was thinking Like the follow through has to be there, whether it's follow through from the practice manager slash HR person to then get to the boss, to then make some decisions or at least give feedback about why certain things can't happen.

Stacey Cordivano: 27:42

But like the continuity up the levels has to be there and there has to be some action that comes out or some sort of response that comes back. And again, that probably will take time to empower that. But yeah, I mean, if you're a busy practicing vet, you either need to be setting side time, leadership time, in your week or you need to be hiring someone and, like at almost any size practice I was complaining about this the other day there are so many things to do to run a practice well that even though I have stepped back so much from clinical work, I still am struggling to fit it in. So any size practice could probably use a practice manager. It just becomes like at a certain size you can actually afford to have one on the payroll but that person and maybe it takes time, but that person does need to be empowered to either have the correct communication channels or just do it themselves. I think that's kind of the answer in that scenario you presented Misty.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 28:44

Yeah.

Misty Gold: 28:44

Oh, go ahead Kel.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 28:46

No, I just I agree a hundred percent.

Misty Gold: 28:49

So, within my little team of me and my technician um, very early on, even during the hiring process, I made it a point to say outright like okay, during this period of time we're learning each other's ways. We spend a lot of time together in the car. I am going to offer you very clear and straight feedback on the things that I see you doing that I might want to be done differently. It's going to be uncomfortable for me in the beginning. I don't want to say things that are going to hurt your feelings. It is not meant to be personal toward you, but I'm going to do it anyway because that's how we are going to make a more cohesive team. That's how we're going to be more effective. That's how we're going to learn each other's expectations and I'm going to encourage you, even though you may be uncomfortable, to say the same thing to me. If you see something that needs to be done or that isn't working for you whether it's schedule or drop-off location or you know, whatever the case may be I'm going to encourage you to also take this time when we're getting to know each other, to be really frank and open about you know what you're seeing, in the hopes that my goal is that we build a really good team together and I thought that that and it was like take saying that out loud did not make it less comfortable for me to share that that, like any sort of feedback that isn't praise, is uncomfortable for me to share, especially when I know that someone is obviously trying hard to please. But I thought that it was really helpful kind of setting the expectation in advance.

Misty Gold: 30:18

And then I did a leadership course through the practice at West Point and one of the instructors that was talking said that it's very helpful to sit they call them knee-to-knee interactions but you sit looking and making eye contact with the person that you're offering feedback to and you state out loud we're going to take off our business hat or we're going to take off our personal hat. This is not me and you as friends right now. This is meant to be like. This is our business hat. We're going to offer straight business feedback and that, like to say it out loud, takes the sting out of it because it takes some of the emotion Like this isn't this. This is like fact in black and white. It's not personal, you know, like it's. I think that's hard to separate ourselves from that, but just setting the intention out loud rather than hoping that everyone knows or saying like this feels uncomfortable. This is what we're going to talk about. Let's try to be really straight to the point about it. It was helpful.

Stacey Cordivano: 31:17

Yeah, that's great advice, considering how many of us work in very small teams or one-on-one, so I think that's really good advice for sure. And look at you you were practicing psychological safety before you even knew what that was. Who does?

Kelly Zeytoonian: 31:32

I like it Well, thanks. I mean great ideas, I think, and hopefully this is an encouragement for people to you know. Have start having conversations. Don't go crazy if you're somebody who hasn't been doing any and scare the bejesus out of your team by deciding that, like everybody's getting a big formal review tomorrow.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 31:52

Don't do that after listening to this, but take a little bit of time to think about that process and what you can maybe change, I think you will find that it makes for a more cohesive team and makes for people understanding expectations, and that's what it's all about, right? It's just managing you know what you need from people and what they need from you.

Stacey Cordivano: 32:16

Yeah, and it gives. It's going to give your team a chance to feel heard, which is also really important. I will make sure to throw in the show notes the resources we mentioned. So that's the reward and recognition survey, the state interview guidelines and then Kelly's software, I think rippling. Someone probably heard that quickly, but I'll make sure to put a link to that too, because those reminders would be helpful for lots of people, I think.

Kelly Zeytoonian: 32:43

Rippling is the HR hire that a small business can't afford, right, it manages my check-ins, it manages people's paid time off, it manages all of that stuff. So it's a consideration if you're kind of at that middle level or even a small practice, but you're like you, stacey, who don't have the time to really think about all the things that you're supposed to be thinking about, it helps to create checklists for you to remind you of what needs to be done and automate a lot of it. So, yeah, I can't say highly enough.

Stacey Cordivano: 33:19

Awesome. Well, it was lovely to see you ladies today. We'll do it again soon. Awesome, bye, bye, bye. We'll do it again soon. Awesome Bye, bye, bye.

Stacey Cordivano: 33:30

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you enjoy listening in on these conversations as much as we love having them, please consider joining us for the next sustainability and equine practice seminar that's going to be held this September 25th through 28th. We invite leaders from inside and outside the veterinary world to come in and speak with us on similar topics. There's also ample time for one-on-one meetings with those speakers, and then we also get to spend wonderful time in community in our beloved fireside chats. This is where like-minded veterinarians share their experiences, ideas and struggles. The event will be held at the beautiful Rancho de los Caballeros Ranch, and it is in Arizona Wickenburg. So think spa, think three wonderful meals a day, serve ranch style, the beautiful Sonoran Desert and horseback riding if you need a fix. So we hope to see you there. We appreciate the support of our generous sponsors, like Platinum Performance, who make this 10 CE credit seminar affordable and fun. Thanks again for tuning in and make sure to share this episode with a friend if you've enjoyed it. Hope to chat soon.