Make the Most of Your Veterinary Career (While Maybe Still Getting Peed On!) featuring Dr. Mike Bugg

If you've ever wondered what the heck you're doing here in vetmed, then this episode is for you. We get to dive deep with veterinarian and author, Dr. Mike Bugg, about his new book, You're Gonna Get Peed On:  How Veterinarians Can Keep Their Dream Job From Becoming a Nightmare While Working Less and Earning More. I can't recommend it highly enough - so make sure to check it out and don't miss the awesome bundle of goodies that he is giving away on The Veterinary Project website until the end of April!
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About Michael Bugg, DVM

Dr. Michael Bugg is a full-time real estate investor and veterinarian with over a decade of clinical experience in veterinary medicine. After graduating from the Western College of Veterinary Medicine in 2008, he practiced as a mixed-animal veterinarian before shifting to a small-animal general practice.
Like many of his colleagues, Michael struggled with the unique demands of veterinary clinical practice. Overwhelmed and burned-out, he often felt as if his career was spiraling into a nightmare. He struggled to get ahead financially despite the long hours he spent at the clinic. His entire life was impacted by his career stress—so much so that his wife gave him the moniker Miserable Mike. This, along with working amid the early 2000’s financial crisis and witnessing once-retired veterinarians picking up shifts, motivated Michael to take back control of his life.
In 2012, Michael and his wife, Rosalie, began building their real estate portfolio while working in their respective careers. Eventually, this real estate portfolio allowed Michael to cut back his veterinary hours to part time. In 2018, he decided to take the leap into real estate investing full-time and explore new ways to be a part of the veterinary community.
Michael believes that the greatest way veterinarians can combat burnout is by taking charge of their personal finances and aligning every aspect of their lives with their veterinary vision. He is the cofounder and cohost of The Veterinary Project podcast, which aims to help other veterinarians thrive in their careers and intentionally design more joyful, fulfilling lives.
Michael lives with his wife, Rosalie, daughter, Riley, and son, Ethan, in Saskatoon,
Saskatchewan, Canada.

Learn more at his website, The Veterinary Project or follow him on Instagram!
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Resources that we mentioned or used in this episode:

• You're Gonna Get Peed On by Dr. Michael Bugg
• The 5 Minute Journal from Intelligent Change

Transcript

Stacey Cordivano: 0:08

Do you feel like it's possible to find joy and positive change within veterinary medicine? Are you looking for a community that is striving for fulfillment rather than perfection? Hey there, I'm Dr. Stacey Cordivano. And I want veterinarians to learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier, and more grateful for the lives that we've created. On this podcast I will speak with outside of the box thinkers to hear new ideas on ways to improve our day to day life. Welcome to the whole veterinarian. Hey everyone, today I am so excited to share an interview with a very inspiring colleague Dr. Michael Bugg. Dr. Bugg is a 2008 graduate of the Western College of Veterinary Medicine. He practiced and mixed animal medicine initially and then moved into small animal general practice. Like many of his colleagues, Mike struggled with the unique demands of veterinary clinical practice. And in 2012, he and his wife Rosalie began building their real estate portfolio while working in their respective careers. Eventually, this side hustle allowed Mike to take the leap into real estate investing full time and explore new ways to be a part of the veterinary community. He is the co founder and co host of the veterinary project podcast and the author of the new book you're gonna get peed on. Mike believes that the greatest way veterinarians can combat burnout is by taking charge of their personal finances and aligning every aspect of their lives with their veterinary vision. Mike lives with his wife, Rosalie daughter Riley and son Ethan in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. I am in alignment with so many ideas in this book that I cannot recommend it highly enough. big kudos for completing this awesome project. Mike, you and your family should be really proud. I hope you will all check out the book after listening to today's episode. And make sure to let us know what you think all of Mike's contact info will be listed in the show notes. I hope you enjoy Hey, Mike, how are you?

Mike Bugg: 2:19

I'm doing well. Stacey. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Stacey Cordivano: 2:22

Well, thanks for being here. I cannot believe that you are here to not solely talk real estate. If I ever thought this collaboration was going to happen. I for sure would have said it was going to happen talking about real estate. But I'm glad you're here anyway. And I'm sure we'll get to it a little bit. So for listeners who don't know you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey thus far.

Mike Bugg: 2:44

Yeah, I'll do a very condensed version. So I am up in Canada, kind of the western half. I grew up on a beef cattle farm and you know, as a little boy watching the veterinarian swoop in like a superhero kind of, you know, in the middle of the night doing C sections. That's kind of how my journey towards that nearing medicine began. And I had it all figured out, right, I was going to have a whole bunch of beef cows, I was going to have this big ranch I was going to be a veterinarian, do mixed animal practice live on a farm. No problem. Fast forward, I get into vet school don't last that long and mixed animal practice. I think I was there for about 18 months, I always thought I would own a veterinary practice or multiple because I'm fairly business and entrepreneurial oriented. But skip all the way to 2023 I don't own any cows. I'm not even clinically practicing as a veterinarian. I don't live on a farm I live in the city. So long story short, what I thought my veterinary career would turn out to be looks nothing like what it actually is today.

Stacey Cordivano: 3:46

Isn't that the truth for so many of us so interesting. Yeah. You know, we think we're so smart back back early on. Okay, so you're actually here today because you are now a published author. You have a book, what is it called?

Mike Bugg: 4:00

You're gonna get peed on.

Stacey Cordivano: 4:02

When I read the story about the title of this book, I literally spit out my coffee. And I felt very validated in the fact that whenever someone asks me about how I feel about working with dangerous horses, my response is always I'll take a horse over a mean cat any day. So share just like a brief synopsis of how this book got its title.

Mike Bugg: 4:27

I mean, in the grand scheme of things, the things we deal with as veterinarians, this is fairly innocuous. But just the way that event hit me in that frame that I was in that was sort of my my miserable Mike days will say, but this was the classic tom cat that comes in playing very coy right but I've seen enough cats to know this is all a ruse he is acting at any moment. He's going to spring to life and try and kill everyone in this room. So sure enough, he springs to life on the treatment table. Our poor technician unfortunately I believe God like scratched and bit he goes flying off the table. And they kind of catch Him in the air and the momentum because he's a big guy swings around here I am standing there with a syringe in my hand. And he just soaks me like, on my head all down my face. Obviously, my mouth was open because I'm my mouth is now full of cat pee. And I'm just sitting there being like, oh, like, and it was like that was the metaphorical straw that broke the camel's back, right? Where I was just sitting there being like, I'm done. Right, like, I am done. I'm I'm swallowing cat pee. Right.

Stacey Cordivano: 5:35

This is it for me. Okay. So before we get into some of the many amazing topics that you cover in the book, I'm curious who you wrote this book for?

Mike Bugg: 5:45

It's a great question. I have to be completely honest. Number one, I wrote it for myself.

Stacey Cordivano: 5:49

I was wondering if that was maybe the case? Yeah.

Mike Bugg: 5:52

Yeah. So I like writing, you know, I have a laptop of all sorts of half written blogs. And every once in a while, I'll publish some stuff. But I really, truly do like writing. And writing a book is something I just always wanted to do. And I knew if I didn't do it, that would be a regret forever in my life. Right. So I actually started this back in 2020, when COVID hit, everyone's calendar cleared, I had all this, you know, free time, I thought, and I was like, I'm gonna write my book, and it's gonna be really quick. And in six months, there'll be a book, it was like, okay, it took way longer. But number one, for myself. Number two is to impact, you know, the veterinary community. So everything in the book is stuff I've experienced, you know, things I've gone through, and I wish I knew them back in 2008, when I was graduating, so in a small way, this is this is my way to kind of, you know, pay it back to the veterinary community, and be like, here, this is some of the stuff that's worked for me, this is some of the stuff I've experienced. And hopefully, you know, the newer generation of veterinarians can, you know, learn from from our experiences and not have to go through it, per se. So

Stacey Cordivano: 7:01

awesome. I love that ...totally resonate. So let's start to dig into some of the stuff that you're sharing, because it is super helpful. And I think it's not talked about enough. I was thinking that I might just read you some of your quotes that really stuck out to me, and then we can kind of go from there if that if that's okay with you.

Mike Bugg: 7:18

Absolutely. Wherever you want to go.

Stacey Cordivano: 7:20

All right, perfect. So you say Desperation can be a catalyst to change. But inspiration is what keeps you going. I think, really early on when I was listening to your podcast, I heard you mention transitioning out of clinical practice. And you said it very, I don't want to say lightly, but you said a very matter of factly. And I remember my brain being like, wow, you made that seem really easy. have to imagine that this cat pee in the mouth story is around this sort of time. But I can't imagine that that was actually easy, was it?

Mike Bugg: 7:54

No, no, I've tried to remember what I said or what that episode was. But if I made it come across that way, it was hard. And it spanned many years. So I had mentioned this sort of moniker of miserable Mike, that came up, you know, just in a conversation with my wife and sort of how miserable Mike was born was the idea of you know, everyone has a bad day. And a bad day is just whatever they happen. But you start stringing enough of those together. And that was a bad week, a bad month, now you're in a bad mood. And if that keeps going on long enough. At some point, you just have to accept Well, I'm not just in a bad mood anymore. This is just my new personality. Right? This is my new default setting. And unfortunately, I had to kind of wake up to the harsh reality like that was a fact like I was I was having too many bad days in a row. And being in a bad mood enough days in a row that that was just who I was. I was no longer happy go lucky joking around playful, Mike. I was miserable, Mike, that really hit me hard. Because it was it was such a gap from you know who I want to be who I thought I was. But it was undeniably true. Right?

Stacey Cordivano: 9:08

Yeah. Yeah. So then I think that kind of ties into this next quote that I want to pull out because I think you get to that stage because of this quote. So when one's identity is solely based on being a veterinarian, their self worth and satisfaction is derived from the external validation of their career by others and their perceived success in it. Yeah, totally agree. I think we can't hang our hats on being veterinarians, but say more.

Mike Bugg: 9:37

Well, this is a heavy one. And this is a hard one because it'll probably hit those that are most attached to that identity the hardest and they'll have the most resistance to it. I'm speaking of myself here, right. So when I look back at you know, that miserable mic and I am a veterinarian, right. That's how everyone knew me back home. All my circles, Mike's Mike's the veterinarian And it's like, you feel like you're failing at that. And that is 100% of my identity in my own head. So I feel like a failure, right? Like my sense of self worth goes down. Right? That is why all of a sudden, I'm having bad days bad weeks bad mood, miserable, Mike. Because I've hung my hat, I've attached everything I am to, I am a veterinarian. And all of a sudden, I find myself not, you know, loving it, and I'm supposed to be loving it. Everyone everywhere says, you know, this is this is like the best career and in lots of ways it is. And it can be sure, I just wasn't in that space. And then you feel like a complete failure. Right? So you have to start peeling yourself away from that.

Stacey Cordivano: 10:45

You talk about a way to do that, being creating new im statements for yourself. And using this idea of working backward, I'd love to have you explain a little bit more about that.

Mike Bugg: 10:56

So I mean, at some point I, in this miserable mike phase, I finally reached the conclusion, Okay, it's time to do something about it. And I mean, I literally went off the deep end in terms of studying and immersing myself in, you know, personal development, for lack of a better word. And one of the things that came out of that that really resonated with me is looking at like cable, why do we do everything we do? And why do we have the results we have in every area of our life. And if we work backwards on that, we have thoughts, and we have feelings, right? And so in a really simplistic way, our thoughts are going to affect how we feel, right? So if I'm constantly in my head being like, I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm going to feel like a failure, right? Those have a feedback on each other. So the more I feel like a failure, the more I think I'm a failure, and around and round we go, but spring off of that, that is going to dictate my actions, right. That's how I'm going to act because that's how I believe who I am. And if I continue to act that way, I'm going to continue to get more of that result. Right. And so we end up in this situation where, unconsciously now that and that's a that's a big word, and I'm pausing on that, intentionally, is, we can end up in a space where we don't even realize we're doing this, right. When we think about how much of our life, how many, how much of our thoughts are unconscious, the stats vary, but it's a large percentage, like upwards of 95% of our thoughts, right. And so you get in this situation where you're just getting more of what you don't want, because you're repeating the same thoughts and feelings and patterns that you've always done. So, traditionally, we're taught, okay, you know, if you want a different result, you're gonna have to do something different. That is completely true. The catch is, we have to go further back, right, we can't just like we all know what it's like on January 1, to be like, from here on forward, I am going to do this new health habit, right. And we know how that goes by January 15, has completely fallen away, we have to go back further. Right, we have to reprogram what we think and how we feel. So that that dictates our action, right? And then we will get the result.

Stacey Cordivano: 13:20

And getting clear on the exact result is also important. And that kind of ties into that whole idea of inspiration as well, right? If you can be inspired by the end result that you want, it's going to be easier to go back and keep up with those actions and retrain your thoughts.

Mike Bugg: 13:35

100%. I'm a massive fan of goal setting, or vision statements, you know, Vision planning. And I do believe and I was guilty of this as well as we, we tend to set a lot of goals or visions that we think other people want us to do you know that we feel like we should do for X number of reasons, as opposed to what do I really want, like me, myself, and when you can set that vision, set those goals? You're absolutely right, right. Like that's what you're guiding towards, that dictates your thoughts, your feelings, your new action and your new result.

Stacey Cordivano: 14:11

It's also where core values work comes into play, which you talk about, and we didn't you know, prep on this. But I have been saying for the last couple of years since I've done work on it. It's been so helpful. How do you see core values playing into that?

Mike Bugg: 14:26

I'm a big fan of core values. I'll even wrap those in with like the word standards, right? And it is, it's interesting because the same thing applies when we write core values down on a piece of paper tendency is to write you know, all the big topic ones that everyone's going to write. You know, I'm authentic, I'm honest, I'm transparent. Nothing wrong with those, but it just it has to pack like a little more punch to you personally. Right? Like it has to mean something to you deeply. It has to inspire you Right, because the thing was core values, it's great to do that work in advance, because we're not going to be prepped on when we're going to be challenged with them. Right when that client walks into the Veterinary Clinic, you know, on emergency or on walk in, and they're going to push your core values and standards, they don't know what yours are theirs are different. You know, and, you know, maybe we're in Lexa, morally distressing situation. That's where you have to have them already prepped. So you can just reach in the tool belt, bang, there they are, if you haven't done the work upfront, you don't know what they are. So you don't know how to respond to those situations.

Stacey Cordivano: 15:37

I've also found them to be super helpful in understanding why certain interactions, whether it's with clients or colleagues, bothers you more than it bothers other people, you know what I mean? I've found that a really big mismatch in core values can explain a lot of conflict that other people don't necessarily always have. Yeah, but again, have to do it ahead of time to get it. Okay, next quote, I want to pull out, when you take charge of your day, everything changes, suddenly, you have room to breathe. And you talk about getting intentional here. And I love all of these things. So let's hear them.

Mike Bugg: 16:13

I mean, this is, this is a big piece. And honestly, if you were to, you know, look at all the podcasts I put out and content I put out, this is a huge bucket like this is one of the things I'm sort of standing on the mountaintop screaming at veterinarians about is get intentional with your life. So, you know, let's dive into that we already touched on how much of a of a person's thoughts and how much of their day is unconscious. So the most important thing is just getting conscious, like getting aware, realizing you have some control there. So the thing I'm looking at is we want to go from reactive to proactive, basically, and in every situation that we can possibly have, we can't control everything. That's not what I'm saying. But as best as we can. Let's put some pieces in place. Right. So my number one, whether we call it core value, or standard is lead with gratitude, right. And I feel like if people adopt that sort of philosophy, it will serve them very well. You know, on the science side of this, we know we have a reticular activating system in our brainstem, it helps filter everything we're seeing whether we're seeing it hearing and smelling and tasting and just all the stimulus of the world, I like to think of it of every morning, you get to get up and you can put on two pairs of glasses, right, you can put on the pair that filters the world negatively, and will show you all the negative stuff. Or you can put on the pair that will show you all the positive stuff. Right? So everyone's probably had a car shopping experience. You decide, Okay, I'm getting a Tesla, right? This is the year I'm buying a Tesla. And while you're thinking about that, you start driving around and you're like, there's a Tesla, there's a Tesla, there's a Tesla, and it's like they were always there. There's not more, it's just that now you're thinking about it, you're focusing on it. So your brain, your reticular activating system is just bringing them to the forefront and being like here they are

Stacey Cordivano: 18:09

best resource for starting to increase your gratitude practice?

Mike Bugg: 18:15

Well, I don't know if I'll say the best they are. The one I started with was the Five Minute Journal. Very simple, right? Like it's just a quick one page. It's called The Five Minute Journal for a reason. It should take you less than five minutes. It's a few quick prompts, you know, you know, three things, you know, what are you most grateful for on the day? What are you looking forward to? You just have to start looking that way. Right. And it is amazing. Once you start thinking that way and looking that way. More and more gratitude appears. Right? So I'm not talking like toxic positivity. I'm not saying like, everything has to be reframed. Like, there will be patients that pass away. Those events will will suck. But overall, how can we start our day and lead with gratitude and it will it will change the course of your day?

Stacey Cordivano: 19:00

Great. Okay, what's next in getting intentional?

Mike Bugg: 19:03

Second point, planning. planning is not that like sexy when I say it my point on this would be easy things are easy to do. And they're easy not to do. Right. So side tangent A long time ago, I don't know several years ago there's this there's this thing called 75 hard you know like you got to work out twice a drink a gallon of water nutrition plan. It's like it's meant to be this really hard physical challenge but it's actually more of a mental challenge. But anyway, one of the things in there is to take a selfie everyday take a progress photo. Almost everyone I talked to you that has attempted 75 heart and you have to do these every day in a row if you miss once of anything you start over. Almost everyone fails on taking the selfie. No. Easiest thing on the list by far. Right. Yeah to 245 two separate 45 minute wear Gotta one of them has to be outside. That's hard. Selfie that takes you two seconds. Easy things easy to do, easy not to do. So I think a lot of times, you know, when people get in these survival modes, they are looking for this big massive like swooping in, aha, like transformational just big thing. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, we're gonna go extremely simple, right down to the basics. So the two things that have helped me the most, number one, I kind of call it my Sunday system is just on Sunday, me and my wife get together quick overview, like, who's got what meetings where? Where do the kids need to be, you know, is there any big events coming up, we have to plan for, you know, I drop in my key tasks. And it just sort of sets the stage for the week, you know, what's coming. Then on a daily basis. I'm a big fan of the book, Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod, he lays out a whole bunch of different things that you can do. The key here is you can pick and choose, right, like it doesn't have to be this big, elaborate, you know, two hour thing. And I have found that the more that you are in survival mode, the more you need this, like the more you just need one or two pieces that you can just latch on to, you know, and execute, whether that's an exercise component, or just like a healthy breakfast, or whatever it is something that sets your day in the right direction. Great. Yeah. The last thing I'll say just on the planning, before we move on, there's so much stimulus in the world, begging for our attention, right. So every morning, you wake up your emails full, your Instagram messages are full, you have all these notifications, the world is trying to tell you focus on my priorities, the number one thing you can do is just write down one and only one. And this is not a to do list. This is a must do list. So one thing I will do today, that leads me towards that five year vision that we talked about, and you don't have to be perfect on it. Honestly, if you go three for seven on the week, you'll be so far ahead when you look up a year, two years, three years down the road, but everything's trying to pull us away from that. So the final piece in the book, I call it boundaries, you and I before we hit record, I was laughing about the fact that I had to lock my content a long time ago. And then the book gets released. If I was writing the book. Now, I would probably reframe this as boundaries and standards. Okay, so how I look at this is I look at boundaries as in place for other people. So like that's kind of the might say it will say my fence for lack of a better word that I put up, where it's like, okay, that's, that's a boundary, you're not allowed to come in there. And I used to get really angry, you know, kind of like you said, different things hit different. I used to get really angry when people would infringe on my boundaries. But then I realized, like, they don't know, if they're infringing, it's just because I haven't clearly communicated them. They have no clue what my expectations are, they have a totally different set of expectations going on in their life. And so I kind of let go of the word boundaries, because I really have no control of that, like people can infringe on my or try to infringe on my boundaries all the time. That's out of my control. What I do have control of is my standards. So my standards is me looking outwards, where it's like, this is where I will come to, but I'm not going to go further than that. Right. And I have control over that. So I've really shifted that in the last while focusing on what is my standard, you know, so for me, I'm I'm trying the reason I'm saying trying is because I always get the question people listen to like the podcasts we put out. And I'll say something and they think I'm perfect at it. I'm like, No, not even close. Right?

Stacey Cordivano: 23:58

We do this work because we're trying to learn more and get better.

Mike Bugg: 24:01

Yeah, what are my standards is nothing before

7: 24:04

30am? Like no input, right? No, no email, no, no social media, no TV, no, nothing like nothing should be infringing on my attention for the morning. It's me, the kids, Rosalie, we're doing our thing. Not perfect on it. But that's my standard as long as I can most of the time hit it. It's going to be a good day.

Stacey Cordivano: 24:24

Yeah. Interesting. Well, so yeah, I'm thinking about your definition kind of, of boundaries. And I've developed some, like some talks around this. I had to do one at AAEP last year on communication boundaries. And I really dug into Nedre Tawaab's work, which really resonated with me and so I guess like my thoughts on that are that boundaries are actually for you. You set them and then set actions to uphold them, but you can't like you said you can't control if someone's going to keep infringing on your boundary. is, but that action to then, you know, change your relationship with that person is what the follow up needs to happen in order to not get so angry about them being infringed upon. Same Same idea, just like a little bit of a different thought on it. Yeah,

Mike Bugg: 25:16

I like it. I'm thinking back to just what we said on core values. The key again, is you had them upfront, right? So it's like that, you know, what the boundary is in advance of the situation where you have to enforce the boundary? Yeah.

Stacey Cordivano: 25:31

And you clearly communicated it ahead of time, right? Because that if that's on you, if you haven't clearly communicated it. So yes, you know, what, ahead of time, you've clearly communicated it. If it keeps getting infringed upon. It's up to you to change that interaction or, you know, relationship in some way. Yeah. Yeah. Love boundaries, love boundaries. Okay. Last quote, I'm gonna pull out, nothing sets you free, like not needing a paycheck. And first of all, I didn't know that you spelled paycheck that way in Canada, and I love it. And I might try to steal. But I also think the idea of financial independence is really important. And I think I don't know about you, but I feel like a lot of here a lot of veterinarians not even considering that as an option. So I'm curious on your thoughts.

Mike Bugg: 26:18

This is, this is a big one I like I love this. And this, we're, I'm excited that we're chatting, because I think we could go forever on this one. But the veterinary industry, for sure. But honestly, just the world right now, I don't know, I haven't talked really to anyone that isn't feeling more pressure as of late, right? Like when we just everything going on the cost of stuff, we went grocery shopping, the other day was like 365 bucks, and we didn't buy any meat. Like that's just like vegetables and fruit and stuff. Everyone is feeling the pinch. And I look at you know, my life. And there's kind of four freedoms that I consider, right freedom of time, freedom of money, freedom of relationship, freedom of purpose, right, and I'm trying to kind of optimize in those areas where if I have as much choice as possible in those areas, I know that my joy, my fulfillment in my life is pretty high. And I see a lot of veterinarians, truly in survival mode, financially, right, they have, you know, the mountain of debt, they're working 50 6070 plus hours a week, working really hard. And they're feeling like they're not getting ahead. They just feel stuck. They're everything totally changes. If you don't need that, like if you don't have to go do that. I'm not saying that doesn't mean you're not going to do it, right. Lots of people get financially free, and would still choose to do the work they're doing because they love it, they would probably just do quite a bit less. Me. Yeah. And then the interesting thing that happens is, you get that time back for sure. But you get all of that, like mental and emotional energy back. Right? And the things that come of it like you hear, I've heard so many stories, when people are finally able to step away from something, they don't know what's next. But they still have the courage to make that step. And in very short order, something just absolutely amazing comes along, right. And I've heard that just so many times where it's just like there's something here, right where you can break free from that survival mode. And then all of a sudden, you know, things that truly lights you up fill that space, because you have the energy to like, step into them now.

Stacey Cordivano: 28:36

Yeah, for sure. So thoughts on how to get veterinarians a little bit more comfortable or secure in their finances?

Mike Bugg: 28:46

Oh, that's a good one. I do think we have to talk about it more. I mean, that being said, as you've heard already talking is one thing doing is another. The reason I'm starting with talking is people don't talk about money, in my opinion, nearly enough. Like it's still kind of this taboo thing. And what that sets us up for is a situation where if we're not talking about it very much, but when we do talk about it, it's a very negative conversation. That means that you know, the body of work, the body of conversations happening around money are negative. So what does that lead to, that leads to us feeling negative about money that leads to our actions being fairly negative, and that leads to our results. So I want to see way more positive conversations away from scarcity Towards Abundance in the veterinary space. Right, and that can get us all primed, you know, thinking it is possible, like it is possible to have a financially abundant life as a veterinarian.

Stacey Cordivano: 29:48

Well, let's talk a little bit about multiple streams of income, though also because I think that's not truly necessary, but I think it's definitely a way that I was I'm aware of, you know, before I got into real estate and things like that, that people may not even understand the concept of

Mike Bugg: 30:07

the multiple streams of income is kind of like it sounds like most people listening to this podcast are going to have as stream of income, which is their veterinary employment. Right? And that's fantastic. When we look at multiple, we're just looking at how can we add other streams that come in? I know you and I are big fans of real estate, I pivoted over to real estate because I was looking for a way to decouple like my earnings from me needing to punch the clock and spend time there. Right. So that's why I'm such a big fan of real estate is because once I have a rental property up and running, it doesn't require much of my time. Right? Right. So for you and I, we've chosen real estate, we have rental income that comes in, I mean, it can literally be anything people talk about different side hustles, you know, whatever is going to light you up, that you enjoy doing that you can make some some money at, and just start adding those in. Because, in my opinion, the most dangerous place you can be is having only one source of income, because if that source of income goes away, you now have no source of income.

Stacey Cordivano: 31:10

Right? And do you hear pushback from people that you talk to you are veterinarians? Like I just, I can't possibly do that. I don't have time I you know, do you hear things like that?

Mike Bugg: 31:19

Sometimes? Yeah. I mean, I'm always I'm very supportive. And so it's like, everyone's situation is going to be very different. And I'm fully transparent. I don't think real estate is for everyone. And then you'd have to break that down into like active real estate investing or passive real estate investing. And I also will never say that it's better, right? If you're a veterinarian who's always wanted to own their own veterinary practice, and you're, you know, you're inclined, you want to learn about the business side, and you're going to dive in, you should go do that. I'm never going to try to talk you out of that and say, Oh, no, real estate's better. It's like, no, if you want to go run a veterinary clinic, 100% dive in.

Stacey Cordivano: 32:01

Yeah, that's a really important point. Everything needs to be kind of individualized. And just like we've talked about a lot throughout this whole episode, you really need to kind of step back and take time to plan that and see what works for you, you know, and your family or partnership individually. So yeah, well, thank you. Thanks for all the insight that you've provided in this, you know, chat, I really appreciate it. Where can people find the book, find out more I know, there's also an awesome workbook and I'm gonna get this out soon. So there's still a new bundle going, I believe, is that correct?

Mike Bugg: 32:38

Yeah. So you can find the book online, you know, what all the major platforms Amazon, it's your gonna get peed on. On our website over at the veterinary project, there is a book page. And on there, I have kind of a little book bundle, I think that runs till April 22. If you miss it by a few days, just email us and I'll hook you up. But yeah, it has a workbook in it, kind of my daily intention checklist, which is from my Miracle Morning, kind of what I've whittled down in use, and then I will be running a goal setting workshop sometime later in 2023. So anyone that kind of, you know, buys the book within the first month, you get access to all of that stuff. And you can feel free to follow along the veterinary project. That's that's the podcast me and Jonathan run, same website, same Instagram handle.

Stacey Cordivano: 33:25

Perfect. And I'll put all those links in the show notes. Again, I highly recommend the book. So informative, actionable, loved it. Congratulations. Thank you for being here today. Last question, what is one small thing that has brought you joy this past week?

Mike Bugg: 33:41

Yeah. So I knew this was coming because I know that's your your classic question. This is easy for me. So I am up in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada, it is sort of spring melt time. So we have all this snow it starts melting means that there's huge puddles. And I tried to be an active runner. And on Saturday, this weekend, I was going for my run. And Riley my three and a half year old wanted to come. So I strapped her in the running stroller. And we were heading down the trails and they're very slushy and puddles everywhere. And we decided we're not going around any of the puddles. We're going through all of them. So we spent like an hour just bombing through puddles, you know, getting soaked just being little kids playing in puddles. And it was fantastic.

Stacey Cordivano: 34:22

That's awesome. She probably had such a blast as well. What a great memory. Well, thanks again and I'll talk to you soon.

Mike Bugg: 34:30

You got thanks, Stacey.

Stacey Cordivano: 34:33

Thank you so much for tuning in to the whole veterinarian podcast. I so appreciate the time that you spend with me to connect. Please find me on Instagram at the whole veterinarian, or check out the website at the whole veterinarian.com and you can sign up for our monthly newsletter as well. Thanks again and I'll talk to you soon