When Imposter Syndrome Rears Its Ugly Head in Veterinary Medicine with Dr. Katie Ford

Have you ever felt like you weren't qualified enough to be treating the animal standing in front of you? You are not alone.  Join me as I chat with Dr. Katie Ford about her experiences with imposter syndrome and why they led her to dive deep into  this topic. She is a wealth of information and I cannot thank her enough for sharing what she's learned along her journey.
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About Dr. Ford
My name is Katie, I live in beautiful Saddleworth just outside Manchester, UK. I'm a happy space-nerd, obsessed with Gary Vaynerchuk and I love racoons. Getting outside walking makes my heart glow, as does spending time with my partner and our two ridiculously fluffy cats. I love the gym, learning mountain biking, fitness and have done the odd mud run. I'm obsessed with gratitude, its anecdotal and more scientifically proven effects. I come up with new and crazy plans on the regular, and I am fascinated with human potential.
I'm passionate about positive mindset techniques and helping others with them too; I trained as a coach, broadband consciousness trainer & cognitive behaviour therapy. I've also been mentored and still am, by one of Bob Proctor's top mindset coaches in the world, who I'm lucky to call a good friend. I'm also a vet, who works in small animal practice and has an advanced certificate in internal medicine, I've been lucky to be doing this for nine years now. ⁣
Five years ago, this would have been a very different introduction. I would have started with "my name is Katie, and I'm a vet." All of my worth was on my job title; this was a double-edged sword. The profession is amazing, but I left all my hobbies behind. I became overworked (on my own terms), feeling like a fraud for any achievement and constantly chasing happiness. I put myself under more stress than clients, colleagues or patients ever did; I chased perfection constantly, staying longer and longer to disaster prevent. My brain looked for things that went wrong, and tortured me, however minuscule they appeared externally. It was mentally and physically unsustainable. I had achievements galore, everything external that I could want... but internally, I was in a civil war. I felt like one person went and achieved all this stuff externally, and then internally, I felt like a worthless fraud.⁣
The good news was that through lots of methods, help from many sources, harnessing my thoughts, and recognising my personal value...my life is totally transformed. I've since started multiple businesses of my own & grown a social media following of over 12,000. You'll also find me speaking about imposter syndrome on many stages from WellVet to the Global Vet Career Summit, a myriad of podcasts, and recently keynote speaker at BVNA. In 2020, I published a book called "To an amazing vet", with versions for vet nurses and receptionists available too.
I feel lucky every day to know the content that I post about, hence I constantly try to share what I have learned, and why I trained in these methods myself. I love to help people to reconnect with themselves, the real them, and that's not always who we think that we are.
Where to find Dr. Ford
-Her website
-Her online course -

Transcript

Stacey Cordivano: 0:07

Hey there, it's Dr. Stacey Cordivano. I want veterinarians to learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier and more grateful for the life that we've created. On this podcast, I will speak with outside of the box thinkers to hear new ideas on ways to improve our day to day life. Welcome to the whole veterinarian. heard me talk about the global veterinary career summit before but I just wanted to pop on with a little bit of an ad. The global veterinary career summit is a virtual summit aimed at bringing together the world's experts and a huge veterinary community to introduce tangible ways to build a career you love that also fits your life. They offer 17 hours of race approved CE II and over 50 hours of content and 200 amazing speakers, the 2020 sessions are available on demand through June of this year. And when you use the code whole vet to buy one, you not only get entry to the upcoming conference taking place virtually on October 21, to 23rd 2021. But you also get 25% off the entire package price. So by using the code hole that you're supporting the show in a small way at no additional cost to you, and you are getting an amazing deal. So if you want to find out more, go to global veterinary career summit calm and remember to use our discount code to get your 25% off. And I'll also make sure to leave a link in the show notes. So thanks for listening. And now on to today's episode. I'm so excited to have Dr. Katie Ford joining me on the podcast today. Thank you, Katie,

Katie Ford: 3:28

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really, really excited to cover the topics that we're going to talk about today.

Stacey Cordivano: 3:33

Me too. Okay, so let's just dig into it. What is imposter syndrome?

Katie Ford: 3:39

So we were talking about this before we came on live, the technical definition of imposter syndrome will be the persistent, internalized fear that you're going to be found out as a fraud, but in reality, fraud is quite a strong word. And I think at the base of it, we all know is that we're not outright frauds. None of us have gone and bought our degrees online. We've not made them like on Catch me if you can. We still have the degree, but we feel to a degree sometimes undeserving of praise of the accolades of the case outcomes. And I think about as we've always got that little voice in our head with a big, Yeah but. Someone says, Well done. You handled that case really well. Yeah, but actually, you got help with it. Oh, well done. You've you've passed that exam. Yeah, but I've got two questions wrong that I really should have had. And that's the way that I think about as because like we were saying before, imposter syndrome. The formal definition of it does involve the word fraud. But yet we know that fraud actually means something very different. So it's more of a chronic self doubt and chronically feeling a little bit undeserving despite external evidence.

Stacey Cordivano: 4:50

Got it. And so that, in and of itself is not necessarily harmful to a person right. There are instances where that might be good for growth or things like that?

Katie Ford: 5:01

That's right. So when we think that in terms of almost having that little inner critic that at the beginning is to try and keep us safe, because that's what happens as human beings, we scan the horizon for threats, we check in with our neighbors and see how their crops growing with regards to ours. But the trouble is it goes into overdrive and it stops being helpful to us. So at the beginning, yes, sometimes to stay humble is absolutely warranted. But at the same time for other people that can get out of control. imposter syndrome isn't actually acknowledged as a mental health condition. It's nothing like that. It's a reaction to a set of stimuli, which might be a good case outcome. It's your reaction to it, or a promotion, or just ongoing life as of that. But that can if left, uncontrolled. And that's the thought path that we're on. And we feel very doubting and undeserving, and that's chronic that can then turn to depression and anxiety as you can imagine.

Stacey Cordivano: 5:59

Yes, for sure. I can imagine. How did you get into this topic?

Katie Ford: 6:05

This topic was completely through my own experiences. And certainly I was, I'm sure very similar to a lot of vets out there, quite high achiever through school, went into that school, realize that everybody's a high achiever there, and really started to feel quite a lot like I was just winging it through there, I was passing exams, but I maybe wouldn't have passed them to the level or percentage score that had done through high school and through college. And I really felt quite undeserving, and that everybody else seems to be doing better. And nobody ever talked about feeling that way. I went into my first job, which was a small animal clinic, very, very busy. But the first few months, I was pretty forgiving to myself and thinking, you know what, you're a new graduate, it's okay. You don't have to know everything. But as the months passed, I started kind of feeling like this little internal narrative was saying to me, you need to stop going and asking the boss things, you're qualified now you should know this, go and find it somewhere else. So I go and look in the textbooks, I'd ring the external laboratories and speak with their specialists, so to speak to a specialist at referral center. And really, they even then this voice in my head would say, Yeah, but you only got that outcome, because you got help from somewhere else. And I kind of felt like a win for a while. Anything that I got, thank you cards, accolades, good case outcomes. I really didn't feel like he deserved it. I felt like he was winging it. And that, yeah, I did, okay, but he has more that I should have done. And like we say, there's that fine line between that being a good thing to actually push yourself and improve, versus actually never giving yourself any credit for anything. I eventually decided I'd swap jobs and thought maybe it's just the practice that or maybe I'll feel better somewhere else. I'll go somewhere where the longer consults and compliant clients and people that want to do more with their pets. And it carried on it snowballed from there. And after a few years, even though externally, I had such a good picture of the person that I was to all the people, you know, I I spoke at the client's evenings, I had the nice car, the nice house, I was studying for my certificate and internal medicine. I looked like I had everything sorted. Internally, I just really felt like I was spinning plates and winging it. And long story short, really, as time did go on. And I was trying to prevent this and cover this up by staying in work longer hours, checking in on blood sample results, when I wasn't in work, I'd come in to see clients just because I was worried that if another vet saw my case, then they'd finally realize that actually, Haiti wasn't as good of a VAT as they thought that she'd missed something. So I'd say all I know, you shouldn't really come in on Friday, because I'm not here. But I'll just come in for an hour and see you anyway. And I was trying to disaster prevent, I was terrified of failure. And this really snowball to the point where it was becoming a mental health problem for me, I ended up going to my doctor, I ended up having cognitive behavior therapy in the beginning, which got me out of a hole. But it really got me fascinated with our thought patterns and with how our minds work, and with our identity and who we think that we are. And I discovered some methods that really, really helped me realign with that person that I am and the fact that I'm not that inner critic, because I believed every word that it said it said, you know, not so much of a fraud, but someone's going to find out that you're not as good as everybody thinks that you are. It was ready to bat away any accolade with this big stick, you know, oh, well done on that case that went really well. Well, no, it didn't, it should have gone better. And I started just sharing this because when I realized what a phenomenal difference it made to my life to kind of have that burden of the fact that first of all imposter syndrome existed and it was common and lots of people experience it. And it's not a personal fault. Even celebrities experience that people are all levels of qualification experience that is not just that thing. 70% and upwards of the population have experienced this. Oh, I just got lucky. I don't deserve And so on, I thought this needs talking about because nobody I felt was talking about it. I just kept playing the sob okay when I've got this extra qualification, and then I'll feel okay. And I saw the people with that qualification and they looked like they had it all sorted. So I genuinely thought that I'd feel better than. So in short, I just ended up opening up conversations started posting on Instagram, and was getting an awful lot of feedback saying, oh, my goodness, I thought it was the only one that ever felt this way. Thank you so much for just saying it out loud. I thought I was the only one that used to think after every bitch spare be tortured by that little voice telling me that it's bleeding out is bleeding out is bleeding out. And even though you checked every sign and said, well, it can't be bleeding out, it would still have you believe that it was or you're not a proper that because you're not doing this, this nurse and I then went on to train first of all in CBT cognitive behavior therapy not to be a therapist, but just because I was interested in it. And secondly, train as a coach to because it just became a passion of mine. And I feel like there were so many dark times I could not do it justice for how about things that actually really got with feeling this way and feeling to be the only one that felt that way that I really just wanted to help other people and think, you know what, I don't want all that suffering to be in vain. Let me use those experiences and pull them back and say, Hey, if you feeling like this as people that can help you. It's not that you're actually an imposter or a fraud. 100% deserve it. There are ways we can flip that narrative. There are things that we can do. It doesn't have to be that way. And I've been overwhelmed with the response. To be fair, I mean, Instagrams got 12,000 followers on there. Now I've spoken on a lot of different platforms and stages, and really in a long amount of time, which, sorry for going on for so long.

Stacey Cordivano: 11:45

Oh, no, I really appreciate you sharing your story.

Katie Ford: 11:48

That really is how I ended up with imposter syndrome as a as a niche, really. And that was not expected because I've got an internal medicine certificate. And that was how I saw my life panning out. But I love helping spread the word on it.

Stacey Cordivano: 12:02

Yeah, well, I think that's a perfect example of not defining our career in one specific way. Like I said, I really appreciate you sharing that story on here. But I also appreciate your sharing on Instagram, because I think this as you know, it resonates with a lot of people and even myself, if I'm really thinking about it, there are aspects of the day or the week that feel yucky, for lack of a better word with your content. Looking back at it, I realized that maybe some of that is imposter syndrome, like oh, I shouldn't be doing this, they should go to a referral hospital when you know, that's not always the case.

Katie Ford: 12:40

And like you say that there is that fine line between knowing what we're capable of, and also being kind to ourselves and say, You know what, you can do this? Or if you do have to refer something to a specialist having that story that you choose the narrative of saying, I'm referring it not because I don't think I could ever do it, but I'm referring it because that's the conversation we've had. And that's where it's going. Or you know what, actually, I do have the skill set to do this. And I'm going to have confidence in myself. I'm going to take action to empower myself to make this as successful as possible. But also be there for myself if the failure does happen, and realize like, what can we learn from this? How can we move forward with this as well?

Stacey Cordivano: 13:21

Yeah, you mentioned it a little bit in your background. But I know you've talked about also the power of our thoughts. And that is a new concept for me trying to work on that and learn about it. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Unknown: 13:35

Absolutely, of course. So when they've done studies on thoughts, they think that we have upwards of between 12 and 60,000 thoughts every day. And thoughts are just biochemical processes in our brain. They happen automatically sometimes. And part of that is from our conscious from our subconscious. We know our subconscious mind is enormous compared to our conscious brain. We're essentially born as blank slates. And as we go through certain experiences in life, we're taught things we watch people do things we go into schools, we're taught to compare and to compete and fit in, we're given stereotypes that we learn about, we learn little phrases we see things happen, we get a lot of conclusions, which then just mean that sometimes these thoughts pop into our head. Now, thoughts then can lead to feelings, which that's a very complex thing, the relationship between thoughts and feelings. Sometimes feelings have appeared even before we've consciously had the thought process or we've noticed it. But there is an absolute intertwining of those two things. And the way that we've got to consider it is that nobody ever tells us we don't have to believe every thought that we have, we don't have to give any thought significance. Going back to those studies of how many 1000s of thoughts we have every day, they actually worked out that something like 90% of those thoughts are repetitive that the Same as the thoughts you had the day before, and 80% of them are negative. Oh, wow, that just goes to show you, doesn't it? How much is choosing forests unless we start thinking, you know what I don't have to get rid of every negative thought I ever have. I'm just going to choose to add in some positive ones and not blaming ourselves for some of those thoughts that do pop on. In CBT, we talked about the bus phenomenon of saying, you know, what thoughts are like buses, you don't have to get on everyone that goes past, because it's going to lead to a destination, that doesn't make you feel good. So it's an awareness of saying, you know, I'm watching my thoughts and not being them. And I know some people say you are your thoughts in terms of the way that you think about yourself as the person that you become. But in that we can choose to add some some kind of thoughts. And it's not, oh, my goodness, there's a negative thought here. I'm such a negative person. It's like, oh, okay, that's interesting. But how can it be kinder to myself? What kind of story can I tell? And that power of thought piece really is there's almost a cycle that we can go through, which is, our thoughts lead to our feelings, our feelings lead to our actions, our actions lead to our results, which then leads into my thoughts, which can then lead people in a cycle. For example, if we take maybe a surgery that people are very worried about, say, I don't know, we'll say a bitch spay again, because I know this is something that comes up quite a lot in the UK, we've been taught at that school. And we might have seen one, we're seeing practices or student people getting very worried about that as a surgery, or we've heard in vet school that they can bleed out. And this is the routine surgery as much as we hate the term routine. But this is the routine surgery that can then have a set of complications with it. I had people saying at that school, or every bet loses a bitch say at some point in their career, which isn't true. But it stayed with me. And it was kind of written into those thoughts. So when someone presented me with a bitch say the automatic thoughts that popped into my head might have been everybody loses a bitch state all these are scary, which then our thoughts lead to our feelings. Because our brain has those little connections that hardwired there. If we're starting to think about something more worrisome, it makes us start to feel worried, it makes us feel anxious, that comes down to our sympathetic nervous system. Again, it wants you ready for fight or flight, you know, you're worried about something so your heart rates going up, you breathe in a bit more shallow, you might feel those changes. So that's our thoughts go into our feelings, then go to our actions, which might be when you come to do the surgery, you might be trembling, you might be worried you might not be doing it with as much intention because you're holding back a little bit, oh, my goodness, this is scary, I'm worried. All these things I've heard about it going wrong. At the same time, I should be able to do this, that voice Trumps them because you're a vat. And you should don't go and ask for help. And you don't take the actions that you choose, which then might lead to a result, which might either be that it didn't go as well as you planned, you didn't enjoy the experience, something happened in terms of you might have had a bleeder. And then the result then feeds to thoughts about it. When it comes around again, well look at the previous evidence of what happened. And then we end up in a cycle, it really is just knowing how much what we're thinking about can impact our body and our feelings. And the really final simple example I'll give you is just watching a jumpscare film, you know, full Well, you're not there, you're not being chased. You're just thinking about it. But your body is ready for action, you're not being chased by a dinosaur in Jurassic Park, but your body is ready to go in the same way as if it was. Yeah, that's a great example. And that just shows you the tricks that sometimes our body and our brain can play on is dependent on what we're actually thinking about whether that's automatic, or whether that's more consciously putting our attention to it. And that that conscious part is where we can start to choose some kind of stories and realize we don't have to blame ourselves to some of those automatic ones.

Stacey Cordivano: 18:47

I don't know if you are into mindfulness at all, but it's very related to that kind of non judgmental of your thoughts and very interesting to me, and

Katie Ford: 18:58

just watch in those thoughts that we say be the be the watcher rather than thinking oh, my goodness, this is what I'm thinking about. Therefore, that is me. And they can pass and then we can add another or we can just watch that go by like we say like the bus phenomenon?

Stacey Cordivano: 19:14

Yeah. Great. Okay, so say someone is stuck in sort of imposter syndrome cycle? Do you have some good tips on how to get out or help yourself? Or when do you need to seek professional help? Things like that?

Katie Ford: 19:30

Absolutely. I think the first thing is to recognize it, and normalize it. First of all, just like you've said, you might read some of my posts, or you might listen to this podcast and think, oh, my goodness, that's me. First of all, no, it's not a fault of yours. And secondly, no, there's things that we can do about it. Sometimes that is that we need to get out there and we need to talk with somebody like a counselor or a therapist or a coach. And really, that depends on what stage we're at with it. So if this is something that's having a real detrimental everyday effect and you've tried lots of bits that you've read before, it's really doing nothing, I'd probably be looking at speaking to a therapist or a counselor to help him move you through that point, then, if it's that you want to go out there and do things, and you've got plans and goals, but really just feeling like you don't deserve to do them, because you feel a bit held back by this, that's going to be looking more at a coach. The other things that we can do, there are little exercises, we can retune the part of our brain that always wants to look for the reasons why we feel like a fraud, we have the event comes along, you know, you've got the achievement event something, and then you start to get that little voice coming in saying, Oh, well, here are all the reasons why you don't deserve it. And we put our attention to it, which then can then tune our brains find all the evidence out there. Here's all the reasons why you don't deserve it, here's where it went wrong. We can use things like journaling tasks to say, right, I'm going to list the six things that went well today. And step out of the achievement mindset of they have to be massive, and they have to be all these fantastic Oscar wins that I've had, just look at the five or six awesome things that you did during the day that five years ago, you never thought were possible, or 10 years ago, you wouldn't have thought were possible. Because as that's as tax as nurses every day, we do phenomenal things that we never give ourselves credit for. We just say Oh, and then this happened. And this happened. But actually 80% of the day was brilliant. So that's one thing, a bit of journaling task. Look at the winds, talking to other people. Finally, I'd say look at the narrative and the story that you're telling yourself, because sometimes it is that we're very much listening and tuning into all the reasons why we don't deserve it. And instead, we can pull that belief up and say, You know what, actually, the other reasons why you don't think I deserve it. But let me come up with the reasons why do I focus on them, and repeat them? Look at the facts. One of the nice exercises, actually from the ladies that discovered well documented, they obviously didn't discover imposter syndrome in the 70s. It's been around before them, but just not with the name. They talked about. Imagine that conversation that you're going to have with the person that you think you've deceived. And then think, what am I actually going to say, Oh, I feel like I'm a fraud or an imposter and don't deserve to be here because I don't know the answer to everything, and that other person to go, What? You don't have to know the answer to everything nobody does. And then you'd realize, Oh, you know what, actually, maybe there's not that much basis behind what it's saying. Or if you have searched your employer, you'd actually be inadvertently doubting their their employment capabilities. They'd be like, well, you're doubting my ability to judge a good person. They'd be like, Oh, hang on one second, actually, actually, no, no, no, it's fine. Actually, I will put my faith in your judgment too. So they'd be my main things, talking about it, listing the winds, choosing the kind of story to you because you are valuable. We've been taught that success is all to do with the external things that we do. But actually, we're all successes in our own right already. And focusing in on that. And then the one one final one I gave you is just try and reframe failure, because that's a massive driver of imposter syndrome is being afraid of failing. In that world, we very much want to look at it as being failing is life and death. And in some circumstances, it is but not in everything that we do. And in the world that we've got away from being vets as well, we can look at how failure could be seen differently there because we learn through trial and error. So many people say, Oh, I can't go and do that, because I'm scared of failing, or they procrastinate on a task, because they don't want to do it. And then when they achieve it the decided and earn it because they didn't put enough work into it. Or they overwork and say I worked much harder than everybody else. So look at realigning what is success, and what is failure to you. Because so many people think that success is just getting, I don't know, 100%. And then someone says, Well, you passed, well done and go, I didn't get 100%. So they'd be the things to start with certainly just seek help. If it's if it's really sort of affected in an ongoing basis. It doesn't have to be that way.

Stacey Cordivano: 24:09

Great. You mentioned something about external validation. And I know that imposter syndrome affects the entire population. But do you think as veterinarians, we're uniquely suited to get imposter syndrome because I feel like a lot of our progress is based on external validation.

Katie Ford: 24:29

I think certainly in terms of high achievers, there is a high number of them, it goes hand in hand. That's the irony that imposter syndrome is often the realm of the high achiever of people to be in the profession in general. There are people that maybe have the higher grades or have been the harder workers. So it's, it's potential that those two things do go hand in hand. Again, the ladies that discovered imposter syndrome, well documented it again. They actually theorize that some of the starting points of it were in childhood, so they said the first One is either, you've had a very high achieving sibling that you felt like you've had to compete with all the time. And that no matter how good you do, you're not as good as them. That was their one scenario. The second scenario was the people that are told that the perfect and the brilliant and they're amazing, and they were walking before everybody else was as a baby. And they could read really early, and they were always top of the class. And then they end up with this innate pressure that they have to be perfect, and they have to be brilliant, and they have to be amazing. And there shouldn't be any work behind that should be successful with speed and with ease. And then that pressure can carry forward. So when they have an achievement, then all but it was actually I found it really difficult. So I don't deserve it as much our it didn't just come naturally. And the third thing they said is societal stereotypes, what we feel like that's and that tax and that nurses should look like, and how we think that their achievement path should look. And if yours looks different, you feel like a fraud. So I think on that high achiever front, I think there's a lot of people that are in that category. And that's probably why we see a lot of it in the vet profession. But you're 100% right is seen all the way through all professions that have spoken to people that professional cake makers and feel like frauds because they don't have a cake making qualification yet. They've just made this amazing Harry Potter cake that's in front of me that I'm like, Wow, this is awesome. And they say, I see you post a lot about imposter syndrome. Casey, and I have that, you know, because I don't have like cake makers of Britain qualification. I just made it and I don't know how I made it happen. We just happened. So I feel like this massive fraud. So it just shows you it's

Stacey Cordivano: 26:36

So interesting. Yeah, I want to let people know where they can find out more about you what other services you're offering. I know you're doing one on one coaching. And what else do you have?

Katie Ford: 26:50

That's right. So I work one on one with that nurses, techs of all levels from students right up to in the UK, we've got specialists I work with as well. So please rest assured that if you are a student of a longer qualified vet and you think oh my goodness, should I even feel like an imposter at this point? Yep, it affects all of us all stages. Second thing, I do have an online course it's called Imposter Empowered. And it is one that you just work through on your own lots of worksheets, lots of videos that I do making you think about it a bit differently. Making your approach if you've got a task, or you've got something coming up that you think you know, what I've learned now that imposter syndrome quite often comes at times of achievement and growth, I'm going to do this imposter syndrome might rear its head up, that might just put you in the right stead for that. I'm also going to be doing a group coaching program with another veterinary surgeon who is also a coach called Claire Grigson. And we're working in a group of 10 vets and nurses so that they're all together, we work through life coaching in general. So we'll be looking at things like gratitude, and our true authentic selves, that inner critic and so on. And my final thing, which I know we were going to talk very briefly about was my little two enemies in that book as well, which

Stacey Cordivano: 28:06

Yes, it's so cute.

Katie Ford: 28:08

Oh, thank you. It's just a little set of reminders for vets and those of that nurse version as well. Just saying, like we touched on already, you know what, you guys are all amazing. Look at all the fantastic things, life saving things that we do every day, regardless of which part of the profession that we're in, regardless of whether we work in clinical work or not, or farm or equine or small animal, or exotics, or referral, or ECC, whatever we're doing, we do amazing things that years and years back, we would only have dreamed of doing. And we don't pay our conscious attention to those. And also just acknowledging that everyone is valuable. And that our value and our personal, like our personal value essentially doesn't rest on outcomes of cases or achievements, even though that's what we've been taught. Everyone is valuable. Everyone is unique, everyone's special in their own way. And it's just treating ourselves in that way first, because nothing's ever going to exceed that relationship with that we have with ourselves. You could have a private jet. And if you beat yourself up constantly and not enjoying it, then how much fun does it end up being? Yeah, so that book is really just a gift to give to all the people. It's about 34 pages long and just really nice little reminders. And I've had so much good feedback about that. Someone messaged me this week and said, I really wish that everybody that was a better nurse could just read this book, and just have it on hand. So that's such a nice compliment.

Stacey Cordivano: 29:32

And that's available on Amazon.

Katie Ford: 29:34

right that is available on Amazon.

Stacey Cordivano: 29:36

I'll make sure to link to it.

Katie Ford: 29:37

Or you can go to KatyFordVet.com/shop and you'll see for people in the UK they can order it if they want direct for me or for everyone around the world. You can order it on Amazon as well which the link is on that page too. So you'll find it all there.

Stacey Cordivano: 29:52

Great. And KatieFordvet.com is where they can pretty much find everything.

Katie Ford: 29:56

That's right and Instagram @KatieFordVet as well. You'll fine me most active on That platform.

Stacey Cordivano: 30:01

Perfect. Yes. Excellent content on that platform. Everyone should definitely go follow you.

Katie Ford: 30:05

Thank you very much.

Stacey Cordivano: 30:07

Thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I had so much fun, and I think this will be super beneficial.

Katie Ford: 30:12

Well, thank you very much for having me. It's something I'm really passionate about, especially gratitude and imposter syndrome. And this content that we talk about here is what changed and saved my life essentially. So I feel like it's my duty just to show up, keep telling people about it. And even if it just helps one person just to think, you know what, goodness me I thought I was the only one that ever felt like that if they get in touch with a coach, whether it's me or not, whether they speak to their physician or their doctor, or if they even just buy some, some books that we've recommended are similar and go You know what, actually, I'm going to be empowered to realize that this doesn't have to be the case then it is all worth it.