Ep 77 - How Does the AAEP Create a Path Toward Positive Progress? Featuring Dr. Katie Garrett

If you've ever wondered what the AAEP is doing to support equine veterinarians, this is the episode for you. I am joined today by Dr. Katie Garrett, our current President, and she is an open book in this conversation. Dr. Garrett emphasizes the importance of effective communication and the need for the AAEP to evolve and change as the veterinary profession evolves. We also discuss the culture of the AAEP and the organization's efforts to engage and involve more members. I feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to ask her some tough questions and dive into meaningful discussion. Please let us know what you think - Katie is really hoping to hear directly from YOU!
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More about Dr. Katie Garrett...
Katie Garrett received a Bachelor’s degree in biochemistry and molecular biology from Dartmouth College and her Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine degree from Cornell University.  She completed internships and a surgical residency at Rood and Riddle Equine Hospital and is a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Surgeons (Large Animal).  She is currently a shareholder at Rood and Riddle Equine Hospital where her practice focuses on diagnostic imaging.  Dr. Garrett has authored numerous scientific articles and book chapters and lectures nationally and internationally.  She is currently the president of the American Association of Equine Practitioners.  Outside of work, she enjoys traveling, hiking, and crossword puzzles.

Feel free to Email her! kgarrett@roodandriddle.com
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Helpful Links

The Volunteer Interest Form - member login required
The Transforming Equine Practice products created by the 5 Subcommittees under the Equine Veterinary Sustainability Initiative from AAEP
The Member Assistance Program - a wonderful free resource for AAEP members!
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Transcript

Stacey Cordivano (00:07.982)
Do you feel like it's possible to find joy and positive change within veterinary medicine? Are you looking for a community that's striving for fulfillment rather than perfection? Hey there, I'm Dr. Stacey Cordivano. I want veterinarians to learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier, and more grateful for the lives that we've created. On this podcast, I will speak with outside of the box thinkers to hear new ideas on ways to improve our day -to -day lives. Welcome to the whole veterinarian.

Stacey Cordivano (00:44.59)
So it turns out that sometimes when you put something out into the world, people respond. I know that shouldn't be shocking, but sometimes we begin to think that larger organizations don't actually listen. But after last week's episode, I very quickly heard from the president of the AAEP in response to us sharing some opinions and thoughts on...

the general membership meeting experience. And I feel really fortunate to be in this position to be able to have my guest on today. Dr. Katie Garrett is joining me. She is the current president of the AAEP. And she allowed me to ask her some really difficult questions that were uncomfortable. But as she said before we started the interview, if we don't talk about the uncomfortable stuff, then nothing's going to change. So.

I can't thank her enough for that. So a little bit more about Katie. Katie Garrett received a bachelor's degree in biochemistry and molecular biology from Dartmouth College and her doctorate in veterinary medicine from Cornell University. She completed internships and a surgical residency at Rudin -Riddle Equine Hospital and is a diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Surgeons, Large Animal. She is currently a shareholder at Rudin -Riddle Equine Hospital where her practice focuses on diagnostic imaging.

Dr. Garrett has authored numerous scientific articles and book chapters and lectures both nationally and internationally. She is currently the president of the American Association of Equine Practitioners. Outside of work, she enjoys traveling, hiking, and crossword puzzles. Again, I can't say thanks enough for the conversation that we had. I hope I was able to ask the right questions that allows some of you to feel a little bit more...

educated about some of these processes. I know I learned a ton, so I hope you will also. Please, like Katie said, reach out. I want to hear what you think. I am happy to be a conduit if you don't want to reach directly out to her or AAP, but she is wide open for hearing from you. So I really highly recommend connecting with her, even if it's literally to say hi. Again, let us know what you think, and I hope you enjoy this one.

Stacey Cordivano (03:07.308)
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Hi, Katie. Thank you so much for getting in touch and for sitting down to chat with me today. Stacey, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much. You have a wonderful podcast. So. Honestly, it's a little bit of an honor to be on it. 

Oh, wow. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. So last week we talked a little bit about the AAEP in kind of a casual chat with two of my colleagues and you reached out and were willing to kind of talk further about some of those issues, which I really appreciate because, you know, I think there are always multiple sides to every sort of interaction. And if we can kind of hear...

straight from the president of AAEP, what's currently going on. I think that's all the better. So let's start a little bit with, well, the main topic we talked about was this change to the bylaws on how the AAEP president is currently elected and the proposed change. So could you walk us through how it currently works and kind of where that stands? Yes. So the way that it currently works and nothing has changed because none of the bylaws got voted on.

So the way it works is for all officer candidates, so that's treasurer and treasurer just stays treasurer for three years. And then vice president moves to president elect, then president, then immediate past president for, so it's a four year kind of arc. So essentially the two ways that people enter are either as treasurer or as vice president, and you will eventually be president, you know, two, three years from then. So.

That's who we're talking about when we're talking about officers because the membership already votes for the board of directors. That was actually changed. The board of directors elections were changed in, I think it was 2012 from little districts to at large members. So now all of the members vote for each of the board members, which is different than it was. So this is actually not the first time this sort of governance issue has come up. It's been a little while, but the organization needs to evolve and change as we go.

Stacey Cordivano (05:29.998)
So how it works is in the actual bylaws, it says that the nominating committee will select one or more people to be on a list and then present that list to the board of directors. And then the board of directors will vote amongst those nominees on the vacant officer positions. What has actually happened in practice, at least as long as I've been aware, is the nominating committee submits one name and then essentially the board approves it.

The nominating committee itself is made up of the three immediate past presidents, and then a couple of board members, and then a couple of at -large members. So those are the people who are tasked with doing the vetting. So it's a pretty rigorous process. And I know that all of those people take that job pretty seriously, really wanting to make sure that they choose great candidates. In order to be considered for an officer position, you need to have been on the board of directors. And that's essentially...

you work your way up through leadership and really to be an officer, you will be better equipped if you have had the experience of being on the board of directors before. I can't imagine trying to do this job without having had the three -year term on the board of directors prior to essentially prepare me for this role. So that's how it's worked in the past. Okay. Let me ask a couple of clarifying questions. Do you know why in 2012,

It was changed for the board of directors going from the districts to just at large. Yes. Um, there was a governance task force formed in 2011. Coincidentally, I was actually on that task force. Um, so, so I know exactly why this all happened. And it was a part to look at, honestly, our bylaws overall to modernize them. We had some stuff in the bylaws, like at that point in time, committees were actually within the bylaws. So in order to, for example,

sunset a committee that had kind of run its course. You had to have a member vote at the general election meeting, which that just did not seem appropriate any longer. Another issue was the board was pretty large. There were a lot of members on it and it was a little bit inefficient. Additionally, there were some at -large board members, but the majority were elected from their various geographic locations. And it was thought that maybe we're not getting the best mix of people we could.

Stacey Cordivano (07:51.982)
rather than being able to just look at everybody who's a member for a possible slot in any given year. So those were the overall reasons for why that got looked at in 2011 initially was essentially we got to keep up with the times type of thing. Does that make sense? Yep. And then how many board members are there currently? So currently there are the five officers and then there are seven at -large board members.

So, and then David Foley, the executive director is an ex officio member, so he doesn't vote. So every year there are two or three board seats open to be voted on. Okay. And do you have to have specific experience to become eligible for board membership election? No. I mean, you have to be an AAP member, I guess. You know, that. But there's nothing overly specific. In general,

The nominating committee would like people to have been involved with the organization in some way. It used to be that you had to have chaired a committee. That's no longer the case. So it's mostly people who have been involved in the past in some way. And the nominating committee, when they're thinking about these things, they also try and make sure that there is a diversity of people on the board. And I mean diversity in all senses of the words, you know, gender, geographic location, practice type.

age, year since graduate, all that sort of stuff. There is, you know, a real desire to not have the board be overly homogeneous, to have it represent the organization as a whole, because one of the jobs of a board member is you don't only represent whatever groups you happen to be a member of, your job is to represent the membership. So yes, of course, you bring your diverse perspective and experiences, which is part of being a board member. But when you think about the lens through which you should

approach things is what would be best for the membership. And so those are also potentially chosen by the nominating committee then? Correct. Those are not potentially, those are chosen by the nominating committee. So they choose two people for each board spot and then they run against each other. All members get that electronic ballot usually in July. Okay. And you said there are a couple of members at large members of the nominating committee. Where do they?

Stacey Cordivano (10:18.03)
come from. I don't know how to ask that. No, that's okay. The board members who are also on the nominating committee are elected from the board. So the board essentially has an election. And so when one of those positions comes up, the board says, okay, here are the people on the board who are eligible, and the board votes on it. And then the president makes some appointments. So for example, this year, I'm not trying to put anyone on blast here. So like, don't blow this person up with emails.

So for example, this year I chose Amanda House to be, you know, essentially sort of at large board member representing the membership. In general, people who are on the nominating committee are people who have either been pretty involved with the organization or have been on the board before, mostly just because they understand the specific job responsibilities of that office. And so.

for every member of AEP on that volunteer interest form, which I recognize is a intimidating and long and not always super user -friendly website document. There is a check box to say, you know, when you check like I'm interested in this and that and the other thing, there is a box to check that says I would be interested in board service. So that is where that list of names that the nominating committee generates comes from. Anybody can check that box.

and then they're put into the pool to be considered. Okay. So like also a reminder, if you filled that out a long time ago and your desires have changed, maybe go update it. Yes, that's always a good idea. Yeah. Okay. I will get back to the volunteer interest form, I think. I'm sure we will. So go ahead and then I interrupted you as you were moving into the proposed change. Sure. So the proposed change was actually relatively small. So it was...

The nominating committee would still exist, but instead of essentially giving one name to the board of directors and saying, this is who we think, they would select two names and then those names would go to the membership and the membership would vote in a very similar manner to board of directors elections. You'd get your electronic ballot and that's how it would happen. So the rest of the process is essentially the same. It's instead of the nominating committee having one name, they have two names.

Stacey Cordivano (12:43.15)
And one question when we were talking about this at the board level of, you know, even just the genesis of this idea, one question that I asked of people who had been on the nominating committee, because I have personally have never been on the nominating committee. So I asked them, well, is it the issue? Do you end up with, Hey, there's one person and that's really the right person for this time, for whatever reason, or do you have a tough time choosing between, you know, two, three people?

And the answer that I got back was from essentially everybody was, oh, it's always really hard. There's always a couple people who seem like the right candidates for this particular moment and it's hard to choose between them. And oftentimes the person who was say number two or three on the list ends up being, you know, number one on the list in the next couple of years. Got it. So to me, that was pretty impactful in that it's not like there's like a dearth of good talent. That's not the issue. Okay.

Okay, so I want to also give you the space if we got anything wrong when we were talking last week or if you want to comment on anything, I want to give you the space to do that because I mean, we were just talking about what we knew, what we thought. No, absolutely. And I mean, let me sort of segue a little bit. We recognize that one of the issues that has really arisen this past year is...

We thought, we, the AEP thought that we were communicating effectively with our members. And it's obviously we weren't because communication is a two way street. It's not just about putting out the information. It's also about making it accessible in a way that people can receive it readily. And it was pretty clear from comments, not just at the general membership meeting, but more in general, that people did not feel that they understood this process. People didn't.

feel that they knew about the general membership meeting or the bylaws process or even how things work currently, let alone potential changes. So, you know, to me, that was a real, not just to me, to everyone, that was a real wake up call that we need to do a better job of even just communicating like, hey, this is what's happening. Yeah, I mean, I heard about the general membership meeting by word of mouth, right? And that felt like...

Stacey Cordivano (15:04.206)
I'm thinking back to the exact moment, it felt a little icky. God, that's a potentially huge decision to make to not hear from AAP that we're voting on that. That honestly didn't feel great. Are they voting on bylaws changes every year so that it's so standard that they wouldn't even think to email out about it? Just for some historical perspective, bylaws changes are pretty uncommon. Okay.

you know, they are a big deal and we can kind of get into like the process for bylaws changes here in a minute, because that's probably also something that needs to be addressed. So at risk of offending anyone, generally speaking, the general membership meeting, it's pretty dry and maybe not the most exciting event you've ever attended. So I can understand why most people don't go most, I mean, I wish people would go, like I think there's good information, but generally speaking, it's like nothing,

terribly exciting happens. And yes, it was in the printed program and it was in the app and there were emails sent about this. So believe me, like it was no one's intention to not have people know about it. But the fact of the matter is that people didn't and that's a problem. So one of the sort of big issues that the AEP is working on this year is improving our communication. I mean, at this past board meeting last week, we have gone ahead and you know,

said to the staff like, hey, we need you to find an outside communications person and we need you to look at everything. You know, take an outside fresh look. Let's make sure that we're equipped to do a better job in the future. So while not directly related to the governance changes, that's part of it. And I think that's an important thing that you all hit on in your podcast was, okay, the stated issue was this bylaws change, but really the real issue was not about specific words in the bylaws. It was about,

feeling engaged, feeling heard, feeling connected, feeling like you matter. All of which are really important. Cause I mean, I think all of us have been in situations where we have not felt that way. And it is a, it's not a good, I don't like that feeling. Why would anyone like that feeling? And so to me, I agree with you. That's really the issue that needs to be addressed. So one thing that I, you know, I think your readership should, listenership, sorry, old.

Stacey Cordivano (17:28.397)
that your listenership should know is one thing that we decided at the board meeting was we have just decided to create a task force to look at governance again. So not just this one specific bylaws issue, that yes, but also, well, let's look at the bylaws overall. Are they serving our association well? Are they setting us up for success in the future? One example that I can think of just off the top of my head that seems very obvious is,

Right now, the only process for changing the bylaws is to have a vote in person at a meeting, which is functionally the general membership meeting. That is probably not really how we need to be doing things in today's world. We need to be able to change our bylaws in a much more efficient and modern way. That is something that this task force will be looking at and make recommendations on because frankly, that process needs to be modernized. So anyway, that group is going to look at...

not only things like officer elections and how officers are selected, but also things like the general membership meeting and how we change the bylaws. So it's a little bit more of a global view. It's kind of the same reasons as the 2011 task force came about. And the composition of that task force will again be pretty broad. There will be some current board members. There will be some past board members. There will be some...

you know, younger people less than 10 years from graduation. We actually have people who have gone through the process for being on the board and been unsuccessful in becoming on the board because we wanted to get the perspective of, you know, someone who was not successful in an election. Because one of the things that we heard at the general membership meeting was people were concerned, well, what happens to the person who doesn't win? And I mean, I think that's a reasonable concern. I mean, you don't want anyone to go away.

with a negative feeling. So we thought it was important to have that perspective represented as well. That task force will come up with some recommendations. Then there will be a mechanism for those to be posted online for members to then go in and comment on. Oh, one other thing, when they're posted for comment, there'll be a little explanation of why each of the recommendations are being made. So essentially the rationale behind them. But then the member comment period is for the whole membership to...

Stacey Cordivano (19:51.982)
be able to say, I think this is a great idea. I think this is a terrible idea. Here's what I would do instead, you know, whatever, because it, it's pretty unwieldy to just survey the membership without giving them a concrete thing to react to. So essentially the task force is their first job is to create something for the membership to react to, then listen to the feedback, make whatever revisions, adjustments, changes, then present their final set of recommendations for the, to the board of directors. So that's something that.

is going to be happening very soon. The people have not all been notified yet, so I can't tell you exactly who was on it, because they don't know yet. But that is hopefully a process that will improve not just officer elections, but the governance overall. So we're going to dig into some other stuff about what we talked about, but was there anything else like specifically we got wrong last week that you want to clarify other than like topics we're going to like dive into? Okay. I think...

you did a nice job. Sometimes people can conflate people's dissatisfaction with equine practice with dissatisfaction with the AEP. And I mean, the AEP would love to be able to solve everybody's every problem. I mean, ranging from, you know, childcare to finding an accountant, but that's probably not what we're best at. So it's kind of important to, you know, sort of remember what our mission is as opposed to what, you know, what can we reasonably do?

That being said, we've tasked our member engagement committee with delving a little bit more into sort of mid -career practitioners who on the recent general membership survey, that was the group who seemed most dissatisfied. And so we want the membership engagement committee to delve into that. Well, why are people unhappy? Is it just, this is a tough time in your life? Cause you have aging parents and you have little kids and you know, you're in the middle of your career or are there things the AEP can do to help you? So things like that.

are within our purview to see if we can help. And then the other thing that I don't know if this was really wrong. It wasn't wrong, it was an opinion, but sometimes it seems like there can be a little bit of conflation with the current leadership of AAP and everybody who has been in the leadership of AAP for the past decades. And things change over time.

Stacey Cordivano (22:20.11)
I think sometimes it's important to remember that just because an institution has been a certain way and it was a certain way 20 years ago, it doesn't necessarily mean that's the way it is now or the way it wants to be or the way it wants to evolve for the next 10 years. I 100 % want to get to that again. I do want to just make a note on that mid -career dissatisfaction. I mean, I was lucky enough to hear David present that over the summer and have

been thinking about and talking about it. And like, yes, it is that we are in a busy time of life, right? And that's our responsibility to kind of take on. I think it also becomes, you you've been in practice long enough, you're maybe taking a look at what could be better. You're like thinking about what you had to go through and like, does everyone deserve to have to go through that? And so it's like this time of life where you're like,

I could make a change, but I'm also so busy doing all these other things. And not only is there a way that AAP can support them, but maybe the question is also, is there a way to support them to become volunteers within the organization? I don't know what the answer to that is, but is there a way to lighten the load in some way of what it seems like the requirements are for becoming involved? Which I...

going to get to that, of course, too. But I just wanted to add that while you hit on that, because I do think that that's important. So one of the other things we actually asked the member engagement committee to do was to create more micro volunteering opportunities for some of the reasons, not just mid -career people, but people may just need a smaller little chunk of volunteerism in their life than.

saying, hey, I can commit to three years of being on this committee and doing all of these things. So that is one of the things that we are trying to create more of are these smaller sort of one -off opportunities where your commitment is a lot better defined. So an example of one of those would be, you know, we have this great slide deck now to go out to vet schools and potentially in the future undergrad programs and things like that. So the sort of thing where someone calls up and says, Hey, I'm going to go.

Stacey Cordivano (24:42.83)
to my local community college, can I work with you on that?" And we're like, great, here's the slide deck, tell your story, those sorts of opportunities where you're absolutely working on behalf of the AEP. That is a volunteer opportunity, but it's appropriate to what that person is passionate about and can give. Yeah, great. Okay, I want to get into your story a little, but I also want to be totally transparent here because...

I feel like I'm transparent about my involvement with AAP, but that's probably more on social media. So potentially people listening to this do not know. I am one of the people that has been selected to be, you know, in a volunteer position. And, you know, luckily I have had the space due to my work schedule and family structure that has allowed me to become much more involved over the last few years. And I'm not.

completely unbiased when we're in this conversation. I think AAP is doing great things and making great strides and yet am surrounded by people who, like you said, kind of have this one thought of how the AAP was and haven't either maintained engagement to understand or don't fully believe because they're not seeing it in person that things are changing. So I just want to be clear about that. Like I've...

saw a couple things that didn't jive with me when I was getting into the wellbeing space and I called a few people and made my complaints known and eventually the next year was invited to be on the wellness committee. And I have also been, you know, involved with the practice culture subcommittee, which is part of the new sustainability effort. So I just want to be clear that I am also involved in it much less.

significant way than you, but I am. I don't know that that's true, Stacey. You've made some pretty amazing contributions, so don't sell yourself short. Well, thank you. But it's enough to know how significant of a time commitment this can be and what the board and officers, what their commitment is and what contribution they're making out of a volunteer position. So, I feel like I...

Stacey Cordivano (26:58.722)
have a much better perspective of how much work it actually takes to keep this thing going, but yet have enough either outside influence or just newly into it to also be still hearing from people who are struggling with the concept of what AAP is doing for them. So I just wanted to put that out there because I don't know that everyone totally knows that who's just listening.

I do also want to give you the space to kind of tell your story of how you got more involved with AAP and then how you are now here as president because I think that's potentially relatable for people listening. Sure. I'm unusual in the sense that I've worked at the same practice my entire career, like as an intern straight out of school till today. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I know. No, it's very weird and unusual. And...

I mean, there are good things and bad things about that, of course, and sort of having been in the same place. But I was really, really fortunate to be in a practice where involvement in organized veterinary medicine, not just AEP, but you know, we're in Kentucky. So the KVMA and specialty organizations and those sorts of things, our practice has a feels very strongly that it is valuable and important for people in our practice to be involved in it. So I am extremely privileged to have not had that as a barrier.

So I never had to convince my boss that it really was good for everybody that I be absent from the practice for this time to go to this committee meeting or any anything like that. So I very much recognize that I come from a place of privilege when I didn't have to navigate some of those tricky situations with employers. But I started out as a volunteer on the educational programs committee.

which I loved because I'm a very nerdy person. And so it gave me a real chance to indulge my nerdy side. And I was on that committee as a member for three years. And then I was the vice chair for three years and then the chair for three years. The terms for that committee have changed a little bit and the structure of that committee has changed over the years, but that's what it was then. And I was also involved in a couple of task forces and things like that over the course of things. And it was kind of, I would say that,

Stacey Cordivano (29:14.254)
working my way through the ranks of this. It was a matter of showing up, having done my homework before the meetings, contributing and participating and really, you know, being there for the organization. And I think that is why I have been successful, I guess, in rising through the ranks is I showed up and I, and I meant it. It doesn't mean I always agreed with everyone because that definitely wasn't the case, but.

you know, this organization, I think sometimes has a reputation of not welcoming any sort of dissent. And I don't think that's true any longer. I mean, people certainly dissent respectfully, but believe me, in board meetings, not everybody agrees with everything, but we manage to have a very fruitful discussion with people around the table who kind of pretty different opinions about things and sometimes very passionate opinions. But one thing that I love about the culture of,

the AEP in those meetings is there is a real sense of like, hey, leave your ego at the door, leave your whoever else hat at the door. Right now you're here for, for AEP and its members. So that's, you know, something that's been really nice. Um, anyway, after committee service, um, I was on the board of directors for three years and then I chaired the membership engagement committee. And then I think I had like a year where I wasn't particularly involved. And then they would fully called and asked if I.

would be willing to serve as an officer. And I was pretty down -founded, not gonna lie, sort of shocked. I mean, congratulations also. Like that is an impressive feat. And I'm excited that you're here. It's incredibly humbling. I mean, it is honestly, like I just want to do a good job for all the members. It seems like it would be fairly stressful, the pressure. It's well...

I'll be honest, the staff is amazing and they make it hard for you to mess it up. And sort of the progression through the board and then the office. By the time you get to be president, I think you are as well equipped as is possible to not mess it up. But as one person said, steering the AEP, it's not a kayak roll, it's a cruise ship. That has its good and its bad points. Yes, yes. OK, I'd also just like to echo that getting involved has...

Stacey Cordivano (31:32.654)
been a benefit to me, right? I was solo for a really long time, just kind of trudging through work and life and burnout and the things. And it's been very rewarding for me also. But that a little bit takes me and kind of some of the things you commented on earlier takes me to, now that I have you here, diving into some more, some more topics other than just kind of clearing up the whole bylaws discussion. I pulled some of my...

most trusted groups. So that's the sustainability and equine practice seminar alumni and the decade one facilitators. And I combed back through some of the AAP posts. You know, Dr. Turner is actually doing a great job of engaging on equine vet to vet, which I think is great. And I, I'm a big picture thinker. So I try to kind of lump and I've lumped two kind of categories that I want to talk about, which.

certainly overlap, but I think an issue that we all face is sort of an organizational psychology issue, which is, you know, the fastest way to dissatisfaction is having a mismatch in expectations. And I saw it even just within one post and a couple of responses. And, you know, my friend, Dr. Wright, posted the mission.

and goals of the AAP within that post. And I just want to read it because it actually like sets a different tone to a lot of requests that people have of the AAP. And I'm sure this is not news to you, but I just want to read it here. It says, our mission. The AAP's mission is to improve the health and welfare of the horse to further the professional development of its members and to provide resources and leadership for the benefit of the equine industry.

The long range goals include AAP will be the member's primary resource for education, professional development, and ethical standards. The AAP and its members will be recognized as the voice and authority for the health and welfare of the horse. The AAP will be financially secure and will be a respected source of information for influencing public policy. So people sometimes expect the AAP to do...

Stacey Cordivano (33:54.094)
too much, you know? Like for example, dealing with lay professionals, lay floaters, lay chiropractors, we see that a lot. And I attended the Veterinary Leadership Conference and got a much wider perspective on how governmental procedures and PAC works. And...

I'm just curious on like your thoughts on that. And this also involves a little bit of like transparency and like it falls back on communication again, right? Like, is there a mismatch there? Is that, is that a problem? Yes, I think it probably is a problem. The degree of the problem I think probably depends on individual people. So the AEP is, you know, we're frankly an international organization, although our name, you know, is national and...

The AEP is very happy to help individual members with a variety of things. But when it comes to something like lay dentists, what that really is about, that's about state practice acts and state boards and how they choose to enforce their laws and practice acts. And unfortunately, there's not a lot that the AEP can do in those spaces because those state representatives and lawmakers are responsible to their state constituents. So.

The AEP does not get to vote in the Iowa elections, for example, but all of those members in Iowa and the Iowa VMA have a much stronger voice with state lawmakers, for example. That being said, the AEP is very happy and very willing to send letters of support, provide resources, all of those sorts of things to individual members or organizations trying to help.

the welfare of horses in individual states. But the AEP does not have a lobbying organization the way that the AVMA does, for example. You know, we're fortunate that we can work with the AVMA and, you know, tell them why we think this issue or that issue are important and what we think about it. But the AEP is essentially not able to get involved in state level issues because the AEP is not effective in those areas. It is members in those states who are constituents or constituent groups like

Stacey Cordivano (36:13.39)
state VMAs who can be impactful in those spaces, for example. I know you mentioned that you guys have decided to hire a communication consultancy. From what you've heard from people about, we don't feel heard or we don't feel recognized, are there plans as of yet, other than hiring an outside assistant, are there plans to increase that back and forth? Yeah.

So the decision to hire this person was made last week. So that's as far as we've gotten with that individual effort. So, you know, we'll see what the consultant has to say, but essentially we're not sure that everyone is getting the messages that we're putting out in the way that they're putting them out. So say, for example, like most members probably don't know the huge array of infectious disease guidelines we have just as a resource for our members. And let's be honest.

the website is not great. So there was a new website coming this year, which will hopefully make it easier for you if you go on the website to find what you're looking for. But in addition to that, we haven't necessarily done a great job of finding the way to reach everybody in the way that they want to be reached. So, you know, yes, we're on social media and all of those sorts of things, but how do we communicate with you, Stacey, specifically so that you can say, hey, like, I want to get texts. I don't like emails.

Um, and I'll follow you on Facebook, you know, whatever, whatever it is. So can we individualize these things? Are there other platforms we should be using? What better mechanisms can we have to get feedback from our members? You know, is it an online suggestion? What are, what are the ways that we can hear back from members better rather than just having to rely upon a casual conversation with someone who then kind of runs it up the food chain? I mean, we do tons of surveys and everything like that, but.

how can we follow back up on those surveys to make sure that we're hearing from the people who feel unheard? Because if people are feeling unheard, then we need to do something different to get them heard. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I also kind of want to play devil's advocate to myself, I guess. Sure. Part of this is our responsibility as members to stay as informed as possible. And I will admit to...

Stacey Cordivano (38:37.346)
deleting a lot of the emails when I had no skin in the game. And like now that I'm looking for resources that the practice culture subcommittee has made, I read everything in detail and get a lot more information. And so I do just kind of want to put it on members that partly they have a role in staying up to date. And yes, I think the new website probably will be helpful with that because some of it is cumbersome to find. So I'm just...

want to throw that out there because I think we can't just like completely rely on the AAB to spoon feed us everything we need to know. I think you're exactly right. I mean, essentially, it's kind of like we've sent all these emails and sometimes people come back and say, well, but I don't read email. It's like, well, that's a pretty primary means of communication. I don't think anyone's expecting everyone to read every single email. Yeah. But.

At some point, it is incumbent upon people to do their half of the engagement. Yes. Okay. The other big topic, harder potentially topic, is the general culture or appearance of the AAP. There's no getting around the fact that it was, or for some people, is still thought of as an old boys club. I just...

I don't know how else to say. No, I mean, Stacey, you're not saying something I haven't heard before. This is not news to me that this is some people's impression. Right. Well, even for example, where you were, like you said, you didn't have to even ask to be a part of this because it's so inherent there that you would be involved. That's just not the case in a lot of other areas or a lot of other types of practices. So, you know, I...

I'm not making this up. Oh, I know. But I hear directly from people like the face of what's presented at AAP is people that are still practicing not in a healthy way or my boss is highly featured and is awful to me. How do we move forward? I don't expect you to have all the answers, but how do we move forward with a fresh perspective but also like -

Stacey Cordivano (41:00.302)
honoring what was done in the past, but understanding that if we are going to engage everyone and especially younger members, some things do have to change. Yes, I mean, you're right. Some things do have to change. I certainly know that I, and I don't think anyone else, believes that change is equivalent to disrespect of the past. The past was the past, and I have no doubt that the leadership of the organization in the past at any point in time...

everyone was doing what they believed was truly right. You know, I can speak from my own experience, by and large, people in this organization are trying to do what they believe is right. And everyone is coming from a place of good heartedness. However, things do have to change. Things evolve. This organization is not the same as it was 50 years ago. It's not even the same as it was five or 10 years ago. And, you know, we, and I think the board in general, believe that...

Progress has to be made. That doesn't mean you just like pour gasoline and light a match on fire, but you need to continually reevaluate how you're doing. When dissatisfaction bubbles up, it needs to be taken seriously and people need the chance to be able to share their concerns. And then constructive changes need to be made because equine practice is no longer majority male, you know, married to, you know, potentially a stay at home spouse.

you know, in a more traditional family structure. That is not the world we live in today. Our profession is much more diverse and that is a massive strength. We want to have the best, most exciting people being equine veterinarians. And if we are not creating that sort of environment for not just the AEP, but our profession, we are losing out on fantastic people. And that is bad for everyone. And I guess that's sort of how I see it is if we are not...

spreading out our blanket to as many people as possible and removing barriers to people wanting to be in our organization, then we are writing our own obituary essentially. So that's kind of how I see it overall is if we want to remain relevant and thrive, we have to change. And that means changing and building this organization for not just those who are in it now, but those who will come.

Stacey Cordivano (43:25.486)
those who are in college right now, those who are in vet school right now, those who are, you know, young practitioners right now. We need to make sure that this organization works well for them as well as it has served people in the past. What for you specifically are you thinking you would love to either start with or see through? So I guess one thing that I would like to see is this is a unique, what I'm going to say is a unique problem to AEP.

We have too many people who want to volunteer and we don't have enough spots. Look, we have 700 people who have filled out the volunteer interest form and that's putting aside people who want to volunteer but have not filled out the form for whatever reason. Maybe they don't know it exists or maybe it's too annoying or whatever. Other organizations do not have this issue. I mean, it's an incredible testament to our profession that we have too many impassioned people.

but it's not like we have all of these other organizations to look to and they're like, oh yeah, this is some strategies to solve this problem. We're weird in this way. I think weird in a very positive way. It's one of the reasons I love being a horse vet, but we need to find a way to have these 700 people not fill out their form and then just feel like they hear crickets. We need to make sure that these people who have taken their time and bothered to tell us how they would like to serve.

we need to find a way to get those people involved. You know, I can tell you that the processes have changed in the past. It used to be that essentially the officers just filled committees a little bit more based upon their personal experiences with feedback from other people. So about 15 years ago, the membership engagement committee was created and one of their main tasks is specifically to sort of increase the reach of how to get people involved.

So this group, not only is it about 25 people, so it's a much larger group than five officers, it's a more diverse group of people in general, but they are tasked with looking through these volunteer interest forms. And yes, I do believe the volunteer interest form can be improved even, and one thing we're going to do is just add like a little like 250 word box, like when you say like, hey, I wanna be involved in this committee, you need to fill out 250 words, but well, why? Because that will help people understand who you are as a person. Anyway, so this group,

Stacey Cordivano (45:47.022)
is meant to delve a little bit deeper into the people who want to volunteer to try and get them placed. That group then makes literal like lists of recommendations that are given to the officers to say, hey, here are the people we think need to roll onto this committee to replace the people who are rolling off. The officers nearly always accept those recommendations. And that is because we trust this committee to have done that deep dive and to bring names forward.

And to not have it just be like, oh, okay, this is what five people in a room think. To have it be a little bit more organic because for every, you know, committee or volunteer position, the membership engagement committee starts with the list of everyone who has checked the box for that committee, for example. So if you check that box, you're already being considered. We, the officers want to keep that process as close to grassroots as possible. Is it perfect? Nope.

Can it be improved? Yup. And that's one of the things that we want to work on as well. So I would like to see us be able to engage people who want to be engaged and get people involved because once we get people involved, then we have a much bigger pool of people to draw from, you know, moving up the ranks into positions of, you committee leadership or specific expertise. I mean, I want to know that we are capturing...

the best of everyone's skills and talents that they want to give us. Yeah, I was going to bring that up. I've heard David say that before, that we're the only organization involved in AVMA that has too many volunteers. I think that's important for people to hear, right? They're not currently just being passed over for no reason. It's because there are a lot of people interested. I will make sure to link the volunteer interest form in the show notes of this show. Thank you. So that people can get there easily.

Is there anything that you want to cover or share? I know you guys just had a board meeting, so is there anything else new going on? Well, before I forget, one thing that I want to tell people is please don't be afraid to reach out to me or to staff or to whoever. My email address is kgarret, K -G -A -R -R -E -T -T at rudeandriddle .com, R -O -O -D -A -N -D -R -I -D -D -L -E .com.

Stacey Cordivano (48:10.446)
Um, like I'm spelling it. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Um, because I genuinely do want to hear from people and please don't be afraid to reach out to me. I think I'm a reasonably accessible person, but that doesn't mean that other people think that I am. So I guess I just want people to know that I genuinely want to hear from you. I want this organization to work for as many people as it possibly can and don't deprive the organization of your talents and your voice.

by not reaching out and saying what you think. Great. I will vouch that you're accessible, but agreed. That doesn't mean that everyone believes that because you do have a big title. I'm just another very dorky equine veterinarian, I promise you. Anything we missed that you want to share that the board is doing or that AAP is doing? Sure. I think most people,

may or may not be familiar with the sustainability commission and the incredible work those groups have done over the past year. During this year, we're going to essentially be transitioning some of this into a more standing committee type format because the sustainability commission was never meant to last forever. It was meant to sort of deal with the initial problem. And then out of that, we would figure out, well, what else do we want to do? So.

For example, the board just voted to form a students and early career standing committee. And so that group will be tasked with the entire, you know, the student experience, internships, essentially all the stuff that the subcommittees are doing, but that needs to be done on an ongoing basis throughout the life of the organization. So that stuff's not going to go away because we know that's really important. So some of the other subcommittees will likely be transitioning into a slightly different form.

but I want everyone to know that this sustainability initiative was not like, oh, two years, boom, boom, we're done, solve the problem, woo. No, this is an ongoing little bit of a marathon. But one thing that was really pretty cool was at this past January Veterinary Leadership Conference and the AVMA House of Delegates meeting, they gave us five minutes to talk about our sustainability initiative and the feedback.

Stacey Cordivano (50:30.99)
from the attendees. I mean, it was great. I am so proud of what we have created. I mean, people were just so excited to see our resources and how helpful they were and how actionable and practical. So we in Equine may have been a little bit of canaries in the coal mine for figuring out some of this stuff, but I am really proud of us that we are also the ones, you know, hopefully leading out of the wilderness a little bit.

for not just our fellow horse vets, but for our veterinary colleagues or even people in other spaces. So that was, I mean, that was pretty rewarding. Yeah, that's awesome. I'm gonna wrap up with one last difficult question. And that is, if I am an equine practitioner out in the world, why should I give AAP my money and join? Oh, that's a really good question. Okay, so there's a couple...

Like I'll sort of address this from two different ways. One is the kind of like nuts and bolts, like cost benefit way. And the other is the, I'll just call it like woo woo love in way. That'll hit two different populations. Good. Okay. Perfect. So the nuts and bolts way is you've got a ton of value for your money. So there are things like the group purchasing discounts, access to a lot of the resources like.

Our fee survey that just finished up, that's available to members. White papers, best practices, infectious disease guidelines, the listserv, which has its problems and we're working on revising that, but a source to hopefully connect with colleagues in a really positive way. So there are tangible benefits of belonging to AEP. Like I think David Foley has said that,

if you even take advantage of a tiny fraction of the group purchasing discounts that pays for your AEP membership, just like boom, boom, you're done. So if you can get involved in some of that financially, it makes a lot of sense. I'd also like to promote the member assistance program in there as a very cost effective because it's free for us resource. Yeah, and that is a really great and probably like somewhat underutilized resource. Obviously all of the continuing education is great.

Stacey Cordivano (52:48.2)
access to the webinars and all the little like tips and tricks and videos, all of that sort of stuff is a great member benefit. Now the WooWoo side is it is a really great community. And even if it may not seem like it is most welcoming and that for some reason you may not feel like you can show up there and be part of the group, you are. This is our group and it is what we make it.

So the more of us that show up and are excited about making some change and making it the kind of organization that we want to be part of, the more successful we're going to be. So I guess I would encourage people to, if you've gotten a little sour on it, maybe give us another chance. Maybe reach out to someone who you know is a little bit involved and say like, hey, so what do you really think about this or that or the other thing? But it is a pretty great sense of community.

and connection, I know that I've been fortunate to feel that. I know that when I go to AAEP events, I come away feeling rejuvenated about my career and more excited about what I do in my day job, essentially. So I've found some really positive benefits that way. I think if anyone feels like that doesn't resonate for them, like they aren't a part of it, I do wonder.

Is there a way, is there a space at AAP this year to try something new like a meetup or a round table or something? I'm just throwing this out there. Is there some way to create some space if you are not feeling like part of the crew? Maybe it's a way to ask questions to you directly or to whomever leadership and just allow a little bit of back and forth there.

Yeah, so we've got things like the new practitioners reception and things like that, but I have the sense that like you're wanting, like, is it just sort of like coffee and conversations with the board? Is that kind of what you're thinking? Yeah, yeah, that's great. I didn't have that exactly in mind, but I do think that's a great idea. You know, and like, and I'm not thinking of new practitioners. I'm thinking of a little bit crispy ones and maybe they're crispy for other, like we talked about earlier, right? They don't go hand in hand, but it's easy to feel disillusioned about multiple.

Stacey Cordivano (55:13.262)
parts of your life if you're feeling disillusioned about one and if you're looking for a way to find community but you don't think AEP is it, like maybe there's some open door policy that we can create this year. That's actually a really good idea and now I'm kind of wondering is there a way that we can do sort of like office hours maybe not just at the convention but maybe in some other format. Yeah. I mean this will like...

This will take a little bit of thinking, but I like the idea of finding a way for people to just be able to have a little bit of a one -on -one chat. Yeah. Love it. Increasing psychological safety all around, Katie Garrett. Yeah. Well, I mean, but also listeners out there, if you have ideas, please share them. Because that's the other part of this is we, AEP, want to give you what you want.

So please tell us what it is you want. And I can't make everything happen, but we'll try and make some stuff happen. And so it would be incredibly helpful if people could give some feedback about what specifically would they like something like that to look like. Yeah, awesome. I mean, you can get really granular, like times of day, the snacks you want, whatever. Perfect. Okay. All right. I'm going to link as many possible things as I can in...

the show notes, that's going to include the volunteer interest form, your email, a link to all the subcommittee work, just because personally I feel invested in that, sharing that. The resources are awesome. Yeah, they are awesome. All five subcommittees have done great work. The member assistance program, because I threw that term out there and people may actually not know what that is, but it is free resources to mental health counseling, legal counseling, some financial counseling, and a ton of...

online education that is free for us now because the AAP worked with, I don't know, some company to create it for us. So I'm going to link all that. Any final last words? No, just thank you so much for giving me a chance to tell people to please reach out. We want to hear from you. I personally want to hear from you. Great. Thank you again for your time. Of course.

Stacey Cordivano (57:33.966)
Thanks again for listening to today's episode. I so very much appreciate you spending some of your time with me. I know how valuable it is. If you want to do me a favor, please share this episode or any of the episodes with a friend to spread the word. And you can also hit subscribe or follow wherever you listen to podcasts to make sure you never miss another episode. I hope you have a great week and I'll talk to you again soon.