Dr. Emily Singler: Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team

Navigating the landscape of motherhood while practicing veterinary medicine can feel like a tightrope walk. In today's episode, Dr. Emily Singler, author of the book Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team, is here to share her wisdom with us. A seasoned veterinarian and a mother of four, Emily opens up about her experiences and the lessons she's learned, aided by contributions from other DVM moms. Her perspective provides an eye-opening look into the unique hurdles faced by women in the veterinary field during and after pregnancy.

We also take an honest look at what it truly means to return to work post-partum. It's not just about overcoming physical challenges; it's about managing the emotional upheavals, too. How do you juggle self-care, job responsibilities, and the constant need to stay nourished and hydrated? Emily's insights offer a comforting companion in this journey, underscoring the importance of loving and accepting the new version of yourself.

We also explore the hot topic of paid maternity leave in the veterinary industry and shine a spotlight on the need for equitable parental leave benefits, the discrimination often faced by women in the workplace, and the motherhood penalty. Our conversation emphasizes the urgency for creating a supportive and non-stigmatizing work culture. Whether you're a veterinary professional about to become a parent or someone looking to understand the unique challenges of parenthood within the field, this episode is a must-listen and Dr. Singler's book is a must-read!
...
Dr. Emily Singler is a 2001 graduate of Penn State University and a 2005 graduate of University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine. She has navigated 5 pregnancies while working in veterinary clinical practice and has been a working mom throughout the majority of her tenure as a veterinarian.
Her career in veterinary medicine has included experience in shelter medicine, private practice, and as a relief veterinarian. She currently works as a veterinary writer, consultant, and mentor and enjoys writing for both pet owners and veterinary professionals. Her writing interests include public health, preventive medicine, the human-animal bond, and life as a working mom.
She is the author of Pregnancy and Postpartum Considerations for the Veterinary Team, which is being published by CRC Press in November 2023. She has spoken both virtually and in person on working in veterinary medicine through pregnancy and beyond, with an emphasis on navigating workplace hazards, workplace protections against discrimination, planning parental leave, and returning to work. She is currently working toward becoming a RETAIN certified parental leave coach.
Emily is a mom of four kids, 2 dogs, and 1 cat. She enjoys spending time with her husband and kids, and she loves horseback riding and all things llama and alpaca. She is learning the embrace the chaos of having a big family and finds solace in connecting with others and eating chocolate.
Connect with Dr. Singler!
Instagram
Emily's website
Buy the book!
...

Transcript

Stacey Cordivano: 0:07

Do you feel like it's possible to find joy and positive change within veterinary medicine? Are you looking for a community that's striving for fulfillment rather than perfection? Hey there, I'm Dr. Stacey Cordivano. I want veterinarians to learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier, and more grateful for the lives that we've created. On this podcast I will speak with outside of the box thinkers to hear new ideas on ways to improve our day to day lives. Welcome to the whole veterinarian. Today, I'm so excited to introduce to you Dr. Emily Singler. Emily is a veterinarian, a mom of four a lover of all things llama and alpaca and a voracious consumer of chocolate. She's been a mom for practically as long as she's been a vet and really understands how to live the working mom life. She now works as a veterinary writer, consultant and mentor alongside wrangling teenagers and a toddler. She recently authored her first book called pregnancy and postpartum considerations for the veterinary team, which will be available in November of this year 2023. So stay tuned for our conversation, and there'll be links in the shownotes on where to preorder that or get more information about Emily.

Platinum Performance: 1:35

Platinum performance is proud to support the whole veterinarian. For nearly 30 years we've stood beside veterinarians with advanced nutrition for the health of your patients and practice, a platinum performance, we know the power of nutrition starts within.

Stacey Cordivano: 1:53

Hi, Emily, thanks so much for being here with me today. How are you doing?

Emily Singler: 1:57

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great. Very excited to talk to you about this.

Stacey Cordivano: 2:02

Yeah, me too. I cannot wait for everyone to learn more about this book, because I think it's so important. So first, tell everyone why you're here and what your book is called.

Emily Singler: 2:15

Okay, it's got a nice long title. It's pregnancy and postpartum considerations for the veterinary team. I originally thought I would make it this like cute, catchy title, but there was no way to do it and be clear about what it is. And that's, that's really what it is. So yeah, I'm a mom of four kids. And when I was going through my pregnancies, I was working in small animal practice. During all of them. I first got pregnant when I was about three months out about school. And just like everybody else had no idea what I was doing. No idea what I was supposed to do, and no idea how to do both things. You know how to be that and be pregnant and be a mom and make sure I was doing everything the right way. So I really I wanted like a checklist or a book or a guide or something. And so I was always looking for that and didn't really exist. There are a bunch of blog articles and little research papers that will cover one topic, but there wasn't really something that was just kind of like easy to digest that told me what the big risks were. And my health care providers didn't really seem to know either. I had an accidental exposure when I was unground, standing right next to the X ray table, because my technician press the pedal down before I moved. And so I didn't know really what that would mean for me. So after a while of just looking for resources and not finding them, I just decided I would try to create it.

Stacey Cordivano: 3:47

Yeah, that's amazing. Because even if there are small articles here and there, like who really has time to go digging for all that when you're pregnant or having a newborn. So yeah, that's amazing. And so I'm super excited to spread the word about the book. So I know that it wasn't just you that wrote the book, because actually we collaborated a little bit. I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about your decision to involve other people and what that kind of looks like.

Emily Singler: 4:14

Yeah, so when I was initially writing the book, I was working with a freelance editor who I hired just to kind of help me get the book in the best shape possible before I presented it to a publisher. And she and I were going back and forth about you know, different ways that I could make it a more valuable resource to readers. And I decided I already knew I wanted to include some of my stories. So at the beginning of every chapter, there's like a short paragraph about, you know, something that I've experienced, related to the topic because there's there 12 chapters in the book. Then I decided, you know, no one wants to hear just about me. There's so many stories and there's so many things that I haven't experienced that I wanted to get a bunch of other voices in there. So I reached out to some people specifically like you, I wanted to hear other people's stories. And then I also just kind of put out a request on the DVM moms Facebook group and got some eager volunteers there. So I think all in all, I have about 25, I call them practice profiles. In different chapters of the book, a lot of people have shared their stories about pumping and going back to work and finding childcare. But they also have stories about how people told their employer that they were pregnant, or one of them was a vet student at the time. So how she went through that process with her vet school administration, and what that look like, most of them are really happy stories. Some of them are stories about just how hard things were, particularly with employers who were not supportive and empathetic when they were told that their employee was pregnant. Most of them are written by veterinarians, a couple are written by that Tech's and the experience is just I think, adds so much richness to the book, because I asked everyone to include you know, what their experience was, but also, you know, what do you think somebody else would want to know? And what did you learn from it? What do you think, would have made your experience better? And what would you want to tell somebody else if they were going through, you know, the same experience, whether it's infertility, or exposure to infectious disease, or deciding whether to take radiographs during pregnancy, kind of try to cover the whole gamut. So I think it adds a lot. You're getting the information, but you're also getting personal experiences from people who have been there, I really enjoyed your stories about pumping. And in mobile practice,

Stacey Cordivano: 6:50

yeah, it took me back to a little PTSD going through that to be honest

Emily Singler: 6:54

pumping is the worst, I hated it, too. But I never had to do what you had to do so well, I

Stacey Cordivano: 7:00

think it's a great idea. Because I mean, I think we all know, storytelling goes a really long way. And so it's kind of cool to have that intermixed with some practical, you know how tos, I think that it's a great idea. So speaking of pumping, I want to dig in to your last chapter called returning to work, because I know it's a big one. And it covers a lot of stuff. And we've talked previously about how hard the transition is. So I'd love to kind of dig into the different things you talk about in that chapter to give listeners kind of a preview of what they might get in the book.

Emily Singler: 7:34

Yeah, kind of start out talking about just emotionally and physically, what it can be like to think about going back to work. And I particularly since I've heard so many other stories and talk with other people, I really try to be cognizant that, you know, my experience was kind of one of dread in terms of going back to work, you know, leaving my baby, but for some people, it can be the exact opposite, you know, just from a mental health perspective, they feel like they need to get back to some sense of normalcy, some sense of routine, talking to adults, again, just kind of like using a different part of their brain, getting on more of a schedule. But it can also be a real challenge for some people who just feel very unready to step away from their child. So we kind of talked about the emotional needs and the need for a lot of support for individuals who are going back into the workplace. And then we talk about some of the physical challenges, some people are going back to work really early after they've had their baby. And so they're still technically in a place of physical healing. I think there was a statistic, that people who went back to work before six weeks, had a much greater incidence of certain health problems and mental health problems compared to people who went back waiting, I think it was like 14 or 15 weeks. But of course, we don't all have that luxury of taking that much time. So whatever it ends up looking like for, for an individual person, there's no judgement, it's just about things to keep in mind so that you can take better care of yourself as you make that transition back to work.

Stacey Cordivano: 9:14

Yeah, certainly, you're sort of in survival mode. And yes, taking care of yourself is not really high on the priority list necessarily. So I think it's a really good thing to remind people about for sure.

Emily Singler: 9:27

Well, yeah, I mean, it's like you get out of the hospital with or, you know, however you've given birth, like, Okay, take care of this infant who needs you 24 hours a day, and sometimes there's nothing you can do to make them happy and take care of yourself. And I remember when I had my third baby, like the day I came home from the hospital, my son who had been dubbed baby was eight years old. I thought, Okay, I'm gonna lie down because someone else is holding the baby. He comes into my room and he's like, Hey, Mom, you want to play basketball with me? I was like, No, I can't do that. And he was like, I don't Under, why can you not go outside and play basketball with me, I just I don't get that. And I just use that as an example of like, everybody just kind of expects you to go back to doing all the things that they expect you to do practically as soon as you have a baby. And so you go back to work. And now suddenly, there are all these new expectations that are put on, you just really need to be aware that we don't have to be everything to everybody, particularly when you're navigating that transition.

Stacey Cordivano: 10:26

Yeah, I think that's also when you start learning that if you didn't have boundaries before, they're gonna become pretty necessary. Everyone's gonna survive. Yeah,

Emily Singler: 10:36

yes. And then kind of as we go through the chapter, we talk a lot about preparing, you know, physically, what do you want to bring with you, I mean, whether you're pumping or not, but particularly if you're pumping all the supplies and everything that you'll need to have with you in the workplace. I want to say when I talked to you about that, you said you had something like eight different sets of like, pumping parts or something.

Stacey Cordivano: 10:58

I don't know if it was a but it was definitely for at least Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I still got caught a couple of times without having the right parts in the truck. So apparently, for it wasn't a mess,

Emily Singler: 11:11

I can remember a time or a time when I forgot to bring my pumping stuff. And I did not have time to leave. And I actually called a friend and they came to my workplace, picked up my key drove to my house, picked up my pumping stuff and brought it back to me. I was like, if I didn't absolutely need this, I would never ask you to do this. I'm mortified that I'm asking you to do so much work. But thank you. But yeah, all the extra supplies that you suddenly need to bring to work, both in terms of the pump and all the pumping parts and making sure you stay hydrated and keep your nutrition up so that you can produce enough milk having pictures of the baby to look at, because that's been shown to help improve milk letdown and improve your production. And then we talked about things like just getting new clothes so that you feel comfortable, and you look good, because your body is probably not going to be exactly the same as it was beforehand. So just doing whatever you need to do from a physical and a mental health perspective to feel good about going back into the workplace and realize that you're not the same person that you were before you had a baby. kind of embrace the new version of yourself.

Stacey Cordivano: 12:21

How long did it take you to figure out that you weren't gonna be the exact same person going back? Because I think it took me a long time. I'm just thinking like, this resource is great. Yeah, this resource is great, because that is stuff that's important to consider.

Emily Singler: 12:38

No one really talks about what it's really like, there's just all these kind of unrealistic expectations of being exactly what you were before, but then doing all this all this new stuff, too. So I don't know, I think it took me probably years to figure out that it was okay, that things had changed with me, and that I didn't have to meet anybody else's expectations.

Stacey Cordivano: 13:00

I think the other interesting transition is like not even just physically, but emotionally. It's such a big change, right? Your priorities shift. And at least for me, it was my life was defined by being an equine vet. Hi, my name is Stacy. I'm a horse vet, like that's who I am. And then yeah, and then navigating that shift of like, okay, some of this stuff isn't quite as important as it was before. I think that transition probably took me even longer than just the physical changes.

Emily Singler: 13:29

I think, for me, the biggest thing was just emotionally because I always do I want to have kids, but no one can really understand exactly what that feels like, or exactly how much that changes your life until it happens to you. And when my daughter was born, I did not want to go back to work. I was like, That's it, I'm done being that I just, I'm never going back to work again. Because how can I leave her like, I just don't want to leave her. I don't want anybody else to take care of or I don't want anybody else to hold her. I just want to be with her all the time. And I would, I would tell everybody that I don't want to I don't want to go back to her. And I remember my husband at the time was like, well, you, you have to like, you have to go back to work. And so just it took a long time for me to kind of feel like okay, this is just what I do. And I'm still a good mom, and she still knows that I love her. And I went through that to some degree with every baby that I had. Have. Did they know that? I love them? Are they okay? Did they feel like I abandoned them? And this was just me. But I would say these things to myself, like how can I live with myself and I'm handing my baby over to someone who's not a part of our family. And it would take me months to really kind of get to a point where those voices in my head would quiet down and stop beating me up where I could believe that everything was okay. And that my baby was doing well. It's hard. I mean, I know it's not that hard for everybody. But no Yeah,

Stacey Cordivano: 14:52

I have a lot of empathy for you because some people I didn't feel that way. I think I was lucky I was handing my kids over to Family for the most part to watch them. But I did feel like I needed to get back to work probably not as quickly as I did, especially with the first one. But I didn't have those voices in my head. I think I had some voices in my head about the energy level I had left at the end of the day, like, am I being a good enough mom in the afternoon and evening? Yeah. But that does add a lot to it if you're not kind of psyched to go do something else again. So yeah,

Emily Singler: 15:28

yeah, I just felt like I was completely out of place when I was in the workplace, like he didn't belong there. And so it took me a while. And then eventually, I kind of move past that and got into the rhythm of things. And you see that your child is thriving, and they're kind of used to the schedule and try to just make the most of the time that you are home with them. But then some people have a very different experience, because I tried to look at the experiences for vets and veterinary professionals that live in other countries as well. So for example, in the UK, where it's much more common, and sort of culturally expected that you take a really long maternity leave. I mean, they don't get full pay the whole time, but they get some kind of like statutory pay for a period of time. And their job is protected for potentially up to a year. And I talked to a horse that actually who practices in the UK, and she was telling me that they're you're often looked down upon if you don't take that long of a maternity leave, you're kind of judged for it. Like, why would you go back to work so quickly, you know, stay home with your baby. And so she felt like a lot of pressure to take a longer leave, which is the exact opposite of here. But anyway, when they take that long of the leave, then there's a lot more anxiety about do I still know how to practice veterinary medicine, like I'm still gonna be good at my job, and might do I still have the skills that I need. So I actually took a year after my second child was born, just because of our family circumstances at that time. And I definitely remember that coming into the workplace and being like, I don't know how to make an estimate anymore. For like hospitalizing dog. The actual physical skills came back pretty quickly. But there was definitely some anxiety there of like, I don't know if I can still do this.

Stacey Cordivano: 17:22

And they're like three new drugs on the market. I don't know how much but for you guys, it seems like all these

Emily Singler: 17:31

technicians, I don't know where did the other ones go? I don't know. So in the UK, they have these keeping in touch days, kit days, where you can get up to 10 days on your leave where they'll pay you and you can just go back and work a day while you're still on leave. So that you can keep your skills up, keep your hands and stuff, stay involved in what's going on. And then you can like go back on leave and be like, Oh, I see you again for the next one.

Stacey Cordivano: 17:56

Yeah, what a great idea. Yeah, even if it wasn't a year, right, even just to do that, to practice coming back in with like, all the stuff you're gonna have to bring in like, you know, even if you just did practice days after a couple of months of being off, that seems like such a great idea.

Emily Singler: 18:13

Yeah, I think that could definitely ease some of the anxiety about going back in. And one of the things I talked about in the book was when you come back in, like, if you can, like maybe don't start on a Monday, like maybe start on Thursday, so that you just work two days. Maybe the first week isn't a full week. But you know, the same idea with these kid days, if you could just work a few kind of isolated days where you do it and then maybe you have time at home again, with the baby are a little more time to rest before you're kind of back in the swing of things full time. I think that's a great idea. I think it would be awesome for us to do something like that.

Stacey Cordivano: 18:47

Yeah, I also really love the idea of like kind of a graduated re entrance back I know a couple of my colleagues have done that right, start working two days a week and then build up from there more slowly.

Emily Singler: 18:58

In other industries, like in a lot of like corporate and sales jobs. That's pretty common to have a reentry plan, where you start working for fewer hours or you start working from home or you know, whatever the case may be to gradually ease your way back into the workplace and being away from your child. And some of those options like work from home aren't as practical in, in veterinary medicine, but definitely the kind of gradual reentry, I think for me, if that had been offered offended an option, I think I would have probably appreciated that would have helped me feel like I wasn't just going from like zero to 60 from one week to the next. I'm hoping that those options will be offered more more commonly in veterinary practice, as we talk about it more. So kind of

Stacey Cordivano: 19:47

a side question and I don't know if you know the answer to this, but I've been doing more work in the workplace culture space, especially in the equine world. Do you know how common it is for the Don't Aryans to have paid maternity leave in the US paid parental leave, I should say,

Emily Singler: 20:05

I don't have numbers, but I think it's still relatively uncommon.

Stacey Cordivano: 20:11

Okay, I didn't know if that was different and smaller. I mean, it's certainly not common and equine, so I didn't know if it was different in small animal.

Emily Singler: 20:17

Yeah, some of the corporations are starting to offer it. Like the corporate consolidators, I'm seeing that anywhere from like four weeks to six weeks to eight weeks, a lot of them have tenure requirements. So you have to have worked for this company for a certain amount of time, like a year before you're eligible for that, or you have to be full time. And if you're part time, you're not eligible kind of thing. And I'm seeing more maternity leave, and not as much true parental leave where it would work for, for either parent, I would say veterinary medicine is still way behind. Well, I mean, our country is way behind the rest of the world, right, and in parental leave. And that's definitely something that I'm very passionate about. And I think we need to talk about it a lot more in veterinary medicine, because we want the people who practice it to stick around. But we have to be cognizant that they want to enjoy their lives, and they want to be able to raise families. And if we just make it so untenable for them to feel like they can meet their family's needs and stay in veterinary medicine, they're going to be less likely to do that. So I think that it is something that needs to change. I know some people get paid for their maternity leave, but then they're on production and they're on negative accrual. So then they basically, you know, they have to kind of make it up, which the whole rest of the year probably isn't really paid maternity leave. So I think it's improving, I think, more at least corporations are starting to consider it. And I have heard of some individual practice owners offering it but I don't think that's something that's really ever been surveyed. And that is something that I've been kind of kicking around in the back of my mind is potentially trying to find a way to survey that so that we can have a better sense of who's offering what and how we can improve that.

Stacey Cordivano: 22:07

Yeah, because I can imagine like, as a practice owner, I think the first question would be like, Well, how am I going to justify that expense? Yeah, how are we going to pay for it? But yeah, and that seems like a great thing to investigate, because surely some people are doing it. So it'd be kind of interesting to know, how they're working it out

Emily Singler: 22:24

how they're doing it? Yeah. And I think there are a variety of different ways to do it. I'm not well versed in it enough right now to say, I know exactly what the solution is, you know, some of the argument is kind of looking at a cost benefit analysis, like how much would it cost me to pay for some kind of maternity leave, even if it's not fully paid, maybe a certain portion of it is paid. And then there's some unpaid or, you know, offering short term disability to at least cover some of it? How much is that costing? versus how much does it cost me if the employee doesn't come back? Sure. Or if I can't hire someone, because they're looking for this benefit, and they don't offer it. So, you know, that's part of the discussion. But I think we do need to see kind of what's out there who's offering it and find ways to increase that. But then the other big part of it is we need to offer it for fathers to, and they need to feel like they can take it because a lot of the times they'll have some benefit, but there's a lot of social and cultural pressure to not actually use it. Sure. And then the stigma continues for mothers, for women, because employers will sometimes say, well, all I'm gonna hire them, and then they're going to have to go on maternity leave, and they're going to have kids and then they're going to need off. Whereas if we shift that so that that's considered to be a responsibility and a need for men and women, then that takes away some of the potential discrimination against women as the only people who are going to potentially have those needs in the workplace. And it makes everyone feel better about being able to ask for those benefits and use them.

Stacey Cordivano: 24:07

Yeah. Do you have examples of sort of discrimination other than the biggie of the wage gap? Do you see other instances of that?

Emily Singler: 24:18

I've heard stories about employers saying that they didn't want to hire women, because they were just gonna get pregnant and quit.

Stacey Cordivano: 24:25

Oh, well, who are they going to hire?

Emily Singler: 24:31

I mean, I think there are probably a lot more cases where people might think that way and never verbalize it, never admit to it. And hopefully, that is changing. I mean, at least out of necessity. I mean, this is a very female dominated profession. So yeah, I mean, I hear stories all the time about employers who are just not at all open to the needs of women, either who are pregnant or who are moms already, in terms of scheduling paid maternity leave that kind of thing. But a lot of room for improvement there. So the motherhood penalty that, you know, we hear kind of thrown around a lot, it just has to do with kind of the finding that women when they become mothers tend to experience lower wages, whereas some men experience kind of a boost. But that takes into account unpaid maternity leave, if a woman has to work fewer hours, because she's decided to work less so that she can do you know, pick up, drop off, be home with the kids, you know, whatever that ends up being, and then any kind of actual wage disparity.

Stacey Cordivano: 25:41

Interesting. I haven't really heard the motherhood penalty explained like in that detail. So that's very interesting.

Emily Singler: 25:49

And depressing.

Stacey Cordivano: 25:51

Depressing. Okay, on a not so depressing note, let's talk about for you personally, anyway, we'll take a step away from the book, what are some benefits to motherhood for you,

Emily Singler: 26:05

I talk a lot about the stressful parts, and probably not enough about the benefits. So I'm glad we're getting to talk about this. I love being a mom, I just love it. It's true that when I introduce myself, I'll just like you off and be like, I'm a veterinarian. But I really feel like I was put on this earth to be a mom. I love it. It brings me so much joy. I mean, it brings me all the stress and the heartache and the anxiety and all that stuff, too. But I love it. I love being able to share my you know what I do in the workplace, with my kids. They teach me so much they helped me to grow, they've helped me, you know, become more organized and more responsible and all those kinds of things. But they just fill my life with so much joy. Everything you know, every holiday, every vacation, every event is just so much more fun. Not that it isn't also stressful, but so much more fun when I can like see it through their eyes.

Stacey Cordivano: 27:07

Yeah, definitely more exciting, I think. Yeah.

Emily Singler: 27:10

So you know, being a parent is not for everybody. And I would never try to convince someone who doesn't already want to do that, that that's what they should do. But it's definitely for me. And I love it. I was at this veterinary marketing research thing several years ago, and they had us all around the table and say, if you weren't a veterinarian, what would you be? And everyone was like, Oh, I'd be an engineer, or I'd be your computer scientist, or I'd be this or that. And I was like, I'd be a stay at home mom. And like the room got very quiet.

Stacey Cordivano: 27:40

So I'm like, I don't they were like, That's not what you're supposed to do. But really couldn't have a more important job than being a stay at home. Mom, I don't think actually,

Emily Singler: 27:53

yes. And I don't think there's a harder job on the face of the earth. And I when I said that, I said that before I had my current two and four year olds, they are very intense. And I love them. I love them with all my heart. And I love snuggling with them and kissing them and teaching them things and watching their happy little faces. But they also like drive me to the point of insanity on a regular basis. So that is kind of the paradox of parenthood.

Stacey Cordivano: 28:21

Yeah, paradox is a good word for it. Yeah. I often say that being an equine vet is way easier than being a stay at home mom. I do. I'm home a lot more than I used to be. And probably then a lot of Equine vets. But I could not do it all the time. It would be way too hard.

Emily Singler: 28:38

No, I don't think I could right now either. I mean, even when I'm working from home, they are at school. It's impossible. So I definitely, hats off to stay home parents

Stacey Cordivano: 28:50

agree. Okay. Luckily, they are so cute and squishy, because it makes up for a lot of stress. Well, thanks so much for being here to talk a little bit about your book. Thank you. When is it available for people to start learning all this stuff?

Emily Singler: 29:06

It is available for pre order now. It will ship November 27 is when it's predicted to ship so it's available for preorder on like Amazon and Barnes and Noble and through CRC Press, which is the publisher.

Stacey Cordivano: 29:23

So awesome. That's so exciting. Very excited for that. Yeah, I'm so thankful that you wrote this for everyone. I'm sure it was not an easy task. It was probably like having another child for a while. So thank you for doing it.

Emily Singler: 29:38

Thank you. Thank you for being a part of it.

Stacey Cordivano: 29:40

Sure. I always ask all my guests. What's one small thing that has brought you joy this past week?

Unknown: 29:45

So I live in Florida, and it's been just kind of oppressively hot here. This is kind of like our winter when you know up north or when just kind of like stays inside during the winter because it's too cold like we stay inside during this because it's just too hot, but just this past week or so it's gotten a little bit cooler in the evenings and I've been able to enjoy being outside a little bit. Again, I love fall in the South because it's our like relief from the heat. So I was looking forward to that. And I'm excited to just be able to feel that little bit of a breeze. So that made me happy.

Stacey Cordivano: 30:22

Awesome, great. It's a good small thing. Well, thanks again for being here. I'll make sure to put links to the book and ways to get in touch with you. Is there a best place to get in touch with you for people listening?

Unknown: 30:33

I'm on Instagram@emilysinglerVMD and LinkedIn. Same thing, Emily singer VMD and then I have my website, which is also EmilySinglervmd.com

Stacey Cordivano: 30:45

Perfect. Okay, I'll put all the contact points. Yes. Great. Thanks again.

Emily Singler: 30:50

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Stacey Cordivano: 30:53

Thank you so much for tuning in to the whole veterinarian podcast. I so appreciate the time that you spend with me to connect, please find me on Instagram at the whole veterinarian, or check out the website at the whole veterinarian.com and you can sign up for our monthly newsletter as well. Thanks again and I'll talk to you soon